EP.53 Christopher Nolan Part 2

In this episode of the Newbies To Movies Podcast, host Justin welcomes special guests Sam and Hayden for a deep dive into the cinematic catalog of Christopher Nolan, centering their discussion on his classic psychological thriller The Prestige and his highly anticipated mythic blockbuster The Odyssey. The group examines how Nolan masterfully handles complex, non-linear structures and obsessive protagonists across both films, contrasting the tight, secretive stage illusions of 19th-century magicians with the massive, IMAX-scaled oceanic perils faced by Matt Damon’s Odysseus. Throughout the conversation, Sam and Hayden trade sharp insights on Nolan's evolution from a director using early IMAX test sequences in The Prestige to fully embracing the medium to realize gods and monsters. They wrap up the episode by channeling their inner film geeks into a competitive, snake-style draft to build the ultimate Nolan-esque cinematic toolkit. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey, hey, welcome back to Newbies to Movies. My name's Justin, and this week we got two special guests on. We have returning guest Hayden, who's been on the show a couple times, and then we also have a new guest, Sam. What's up? Welcome in, guys. This week we'll be doing uh Christopher Nolan. Uh so we're gonna be diving into him a second time on the podcast, obviously with his new movie, The Odyssey, and then one of his first movies, uh, The Prestige, one of his first blockbuster movies, I'd say. Uh but before we get into that, Sam, I always ask the guests when they come on here, kind of tell me about your favorite movies, your your movie watching experience, your favorite genres. Just talk a little bit about what you like.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Well, I don't know, man. It's it's hard like just off the top to come up with uh, but I'd say like personal favorite, Rango comes to mind. I love that movie. Genre wise, man, I love uh I love animation a lot, just because I feel like as a medium, there's a lot you more you can do than live action and animation, especially with like like conveying stuff to the audience, like through like you know, colors and especially like like emotions-wise, like animation, especially with how far it's come in like today's technology, is like you can really convey a lot more emotion and scale and like little uh creative things that you can do. Uh I think Rango's a really good uh like example of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

And yeah, uh, I don't know. Uh on top of that, I do love Interstellar. That's that's definitely up there for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

I'm sure we'll talk about that one a lot today.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure it'll come up. Honestly, recently, uh Project Hail Mary really stood out to me a lot. I love that movie, especially like it was really refreshing to watch in the like past couple years going to the movie theater, seeing like an original story like that, and it being done so well. It was I was I was really I really enjoyed that. That was refreshing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Kind of getting into that just with stuff we've been watching lately. I actually just re-watched that and I keep trying to like dumb it down to myself. I'm like, no, it's just recency bias. I'm just like excited because it's a newer film, but it actually is that good. I think it's just sticking with me.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

It is really that I actually went and saw it originally in standard and it like just it blew me, blew me away. I I went and saw it with my girlfriend just because I was like, I was like, oh, this would be like a nice it seemed like a nice fun movie, like for me and her to go watch together or whatever. And then like I was like, I mean she enjoyed it as well, but like I like once I saw it, I realized I was like, oh, it's like one of these movies, like it really stuck in me. So I actually went back and watched it in IMAX by myself. Yeah, crazy. It was incredible, man. I mean, just like the the colors in that movie, like the the just like the characters are so well written, man. I mean, like I'm over here crying about a rock that's a puppet, you know, and like it's it's like that that's what writing really can't do, is like take inanimate objects like that or like you know, and make it make it that emotionally like weighted to an audience member.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

So that's one I really wish I uh watched in theaters. Yeah. It was great. What about you, Hayden? What you've been watching lately? Um recently I'm actually it's a TV show, not a movie. Sorry, kind of throwing off the segment here, but uh the new Batman Prime show.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

The I think Matt Reese is involved with it. It's it's so good. It it reminds me of the old show a lot, the animated series. And yeah, that's that's something I've been into recently. Um I've been actually watching a lot of kids' movies. I just got back from vacation, my girlfriend. So we watched a lot of like low budget kids movies because we had like the free thing on I forget what it's called, but it's like uh Return Return from Mars. Let me let me look it up real fast.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, yeah. No, I start I while you're doing that, I started watching the Batman animated series on Prime. I just never got to finish it. I got sidetracked with other stuff, but it was a really cool start. No, so they basically it's kind of like what they're doing with X-Men 97, they're bringing it back.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

They're just bringing back the same like art style and everything. I think it's a different Batman, but it's still, yeah, that same like noir style, art style.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah. That's all I X-Men 97, by the way, is is really great. Amazing. I'm I'm up to date on it.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So good. Yeah. It's really great. So I watched, it was called Escape from Planet Earth. I've never I've never seen it. I think I've heard of it. Yeah, I think it's like one of those lower budget movies, but it just blew me away. Like Fraser, Sarah just to architect, right? Yeah, William Shatner, Jessica Alba, Craig Robinson from The Office, George Lopez, Sophia Vergara. It's I mean, it was I was like, I recognize so many voices, and it was actually such a good movie. I I really loved it. It was like it's like something that just I guess got overlooked that uh by uh big big studios or something.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Is that when they go to like the alien place? It's Mars, right? Or it's Area 51. It's Area 51, and and then like 1950s styled like aliens with like white picket fences and shit, right? And like the astronaut is like the alien to them. Am I am I am I wrong on that?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Or so it's basically about like there's all these different alien species that have been captured over the years and they haven't been able to return home. So this one planet like wants to like be the first to like go there and like save all the ones that are captured and like bring them back home. Uh-huh. And there's like two brothers. There's like super super brawn one. This is like this like wimpy one, but the wimpy one ends up saving the day. Yeah. Saves the the brain. It's a good story.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

I okay, I was thinking of something totally different. So I want to bring I want to fucking I want to bring up the one I'm just talking about now, but do it. I like vaguely remember, I vaguely remember this movie. This is a you said all those names, and I'm like, now I'm like intrigued by this because I don't remember this that much. What was the one you were thinking of? Dude, it's the one where the astronaut like crashes on Mars and like it's like it basically takes like the alien concept and flips it on its head where like he's the alien to them, you know what I mean? And like it has like this 1950s like American graffiti style, like all the aliens are like wearing like like suit and ties and stuff like that. Man, I'm trying to find it. Mars, I dude, it's Mars or something. Just I would say like animated alien. It's that same time frame, probably like 2012.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Okay, I think I I found a picture of it, but there it's not listing what the movie is called, it's in Spanish, like the picture itself.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

I'm looking, I dude, I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Is it like a family of aliens? And then there's like one one astronaut. Yeah, yeah. I I see a picture of it here. Let me Google image three. Planet 51.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

It's Planet Planet 51.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

It's one of the deepest pools ever.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

This is that's that's what I was thinking about when you when you brought up dude.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

I that might be made by the same animators, because that is like literally similar.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

It's the same, dude. I remember this movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's literally the same. The rock is in it. There's like a stacked cast on this one, too.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

That's why when you started naming those names, that's what I thought this was, because there is a stacked cast for this as well. I was, yeah, and it dude, like even like dude, the aliens like they gave they have like tentacles for hair, but like she's wearing like a hairband and stuff, and like and like a tennis outfit. It's so bizarre, but funny.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

What is this cast? I know, dude.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Gary Long, Gary Ullman, Jessica Beale.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah, dude. I know I thought this is what you were talking about. How much money did this lose? I don't do I remember having it on DVD. I remember having this on DVD and watching it in the car. I'm pretty sure.

unknown 7:54

Dude.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

2009, yeah, that was prime car watching times. Dude, that's the $2 bin at Walmart. That's one of those ones. For sure. I'm probably this is exactly probably where I got it from. I'm I'm 90% sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

All right. So kind of getting into it with this week. Uh obviously, this is the second time we're doing Christopher Nolan on the podcast. I'd argue like the director for our generation, right? It's probably the biggest name, most money anybody everybody's throwing money at him, and all the actors are taking pay cuts to work with him.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Obviously, he just had the Odyssey come out, huge box office hit. I think we kind of knew that from two years ago when it was announced that it was gonna be. But yeah, Christopher Nolan just keeps cooking. What does kind of Christopher Nolan mean to you guys? I mean, what are your some of your favorites and how how long have you been watching him for?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Uh Sam, I'll let I'll let you go first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

All right, yeah. Uh I mean, well, I think the main thing that sticks out about him is non-linear storytelling. Obviously. Um, I mean, that's like his big thing. I remember I I don't know if you guys have ever seen the clip of him explaining like his storytelling because of the like the black chalkboard, and he draws the line of like the timeline of the movie, and then like mi breaks it up into like three phases, and then does like these jumps of like bouncing between those and like basically breaks down that's how he makes film. And like I think that's what keeps it. I think that's what allows him to do a lot with a movie and like really like do a lot with the plot and like keep uh the audience on their toes, like especially with like the prestige or like memento or something like that, where you know you're watching the movie and you have to follow it really closely because there's all this stuff, and then you get to the end and you're like that's like where those little mind-blowing moments come, and like doing doing like linear storytelling, it's really hard to like implement that stuff because it's a lot easier to catch and all that. But when you're bouncing around, and I uh I think people try and do that, and it can really break a movie because then you get confused and lost and like you've get disinterested, and like he is just he is the best at it because he does it so well that instead of that you're more interested in it and pay attention more, and then it almost draws your attention in so much that like you're able to notice all these little details and like creativities that like the people behind these movies do and do so well and allows you to pick up on that. Where I feel like other big blockbuster movies, like that kind of stuff gets overlooked or like completely like they don't even bother because like the modern audience doesn't really care or pay attention to that kind of stuff anymore, especially with like Netflix movies where like they're like literally made so you can sit on your phone and like not even watch it, and like that's why like the dialogue is so bad. But I mean, yeah, that's like where he like that's what I think about when when when I when I hear Nolan for sure.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

I guess my answer is gonna be a little different. What Nolan means to me, um I remember when I was six years old. I the first PG 13 movie I was allowed to see was The Dark Knight. I remember I was in Utah with my family, and that was the first like I remember just being so shocked by how good it was. Even at that age, I was like, I've never seen anything like that. I've and I was I was hooked from there and I found out that Dark Knight Rise is coming out. I think I was like nine years old, maybe when that came out or something, and that's like peak, like Batman. Like that's the first time I was like super excited about a movie. Like I had to go see it, it had to be the first one in the doors, and like yeah, I think Nolan really really kind of like sparked my love for movies, to be honest. I think I don't I don't think I really had like a super big like love for movies up until like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, yeah, he does that for a lot of people for sure. Yeah, straight up we'll just get right into the Odyssey. For the plot, I gave the Odyssey an eight, obviously based on uh Homer's Odyssey, the epic uh novella from back in the day. I was a little bit worried coming into this. How do you adapt such a a big time book into a movie? But I think he did a really great job, obviously, with the nonlinear storytelling in this. Obviously, it's following Odysseus, the Greek king of Ithaca, on his long, perilous journey home after the Trojan War to get back to his wife Penelope and his son uh Telemachus and kind of deal with the chaos at home. I think the plot was uh executed really well. And funny enough, I think my favorite plot points in this were the the beginning before his actual Odyssey and the ending when he actually arrives home. I think the the journey home is still really good. I think it just gets a little repetitive, but again, that's not even Nolan's storytelling. That's just, you know, the adaptation from the book itself.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

I I think you it described it literally perfectly. It's uh it's a very challenging uh task to to take on as a as a director. Uh I think what he did if in terms of like fitting in the amount of book into even though it was a very long movie, I think he he made it very watchable, and that's very tough to do with something like this. And I think he did a good job, but there's maybe I guess online you'll see like he missed this plot point or he missed that plot point. And I don't I don't think he deserves I guess too much slack for that, but I guess there's some things he should have addressed, and I think that he did he did a good job overall though.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah, I think I mean piggybacking off that a little bit. Uh obviously it's a it's a three-hour movie. I mean the the actual book is is what like a couple thousand pages or something like that. I mean it's it's a it's a very long story, you know. So you have to be able to condense it down to a watchable film. So obviously things are gonna get I I don't mind plot points getting dropped. Although I guess I do have kind of a critique about those, which I won't get into yet, but that is one of them. Just like just the plot points that were chosen to be dropped, I think kind of weakened the story a little bit. And my thing about the Odyssey so far was I think that it stands out as as definitely Nolan's vision, the scale. And then I think he kind of took it like the Odyssey is like a historical adventure. And I think he he instead of focusing on like the adventure part, made it more about like war, the survival, family, identity, like the weight of decisions, especially like at the end with the monologue that uh Matt Damon or Odysseus goes on talking about basically like how heavy it is to do a lot of the stuff that he did, especially with Troy, because Troy is like that big recurring theme. Um and you can tell like that really affected him heavily. So I think that was like the Odyssey like plot was kind of like the vehicle that no one used to basically showcase those themes. And then honestly, I think the biggest like strength of this whole movie is not even the plot, it's it's like the scale of the uh visuals, the like sound design in the movie, like all of that stuff. Like, I mean the movie is visually like stunning, you know? Every set piece, every uh every like scale and design. I mean, I know people like complain about like the armor and stuff and how it wasn't realistic or whatever, but like even the Odyssey is like the actual story. It's a fake story, it's not real. You know, I mean it has it's it has it's embellished, dude. Like, I mean it's it's so like I mean, what do you want? Like, you know what I mean? I think I'd much rather things look visually appealing and cool. And like, and like obviously, like there's inspiration from the like source like material of like the armor and all that, but they took it and had creative liberties with it and made I think it looks fantastic, you know. Like, yeah, like uh Agamemnon's armor, I think that looks I mean every the dude has like what like three lines in the movie and like every scene he's in he commands just just because of like you don't even see Benny Safi's face really. I mean, but just him standing in that armor, I mean, it like really does hold like a presence with that stuff. And like, I mean, all of like the uh sequences, like like obviously like in the cave and the uh cyclops and all that, like the fact that that's like a real puppet, like that they use, like massive puppet, and uh all like that's they filled it in the actual cave that the Odyssey talks about, like that cave that the Cyclops is supposed to be be in. That is the real cave that uh Odysseus came across on his journey home that Homer based it off of. So like those kind of things, like that's what I think from a directing standpoint, he killed it as a director. And it's a great showcase of amazing directing for a movie. And I I would say like probably when we do get into like critiques, my only critiques have to do with I guess some of the writing and and some of the acting or whatever, but but when it comes to Nolan and how he did the movie, I think it that's a 10 out of 10 there.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Getting into the characters, I gave it an eight. I think most of the characters were drawn out really well. Obviously, I think uh Odysseus, you know, being the main character, I was pleasantly surprised with Matt Damon's acting in that.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I think uh in Hathaway, uh playing Penelope 2 was a really great and well-written character. But um even the supporting cast, I think everybody was uh all the characters were drawn out pretty well, uh especially for like Hayden kind of mentioned for being a long movie with and such a long book. For the most part, everything was drawn out well enough to where I cared about each and every one of these characters.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Do you want to go in? Or uh sure. Yeah, we're we're just talking about the characters, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yeah, like I think like you said, uh I think Matt Damon really, really shocked everyone with this. I I don't think that was everyone's first choice when I guess first hearing about Christopher Nolan picking up this movie. But I think he killed it, yeah. I think Ann Athaway as Penelope was incredible. I think I I I I don't want to be too harsh, but I do think the Tom Holland's and Dea in every major film is I don't I just don't I don't they Tom Holland made the second most money out of any actor in this movie and I feel like they they could have picked anybody for that and I I don't think he I don't know. I I love I love both of them, but I I I didn't really see the the need for either of them in in those two roles. Um I really loved I don't know if I'm saying his name right, but John Leg Leguzamo or Leguzamo get his name. I thought he was incredible this movie. I I'm a huge fan of him. I think he his performance is gonna be a little overlooked at places like the Oscars and stuff like that. Yeah I I think he was he was incredible.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Yeah, I I was gonna say the same. I think I would say the supporting performances by him and Robert Pattinson definitely like really steals the show. I would say, like you said, Ann Hathaway and uh Matt Damon are really, really great. And uh the John and and Robert Pattinson really steal on the supporting cast. Now, like my thing is yeah, I I I do think some of like like the Zandaya performance, I think that has to do with the writing and like the creative choices they took. Because uh in the original story, Athena has like a really more of a big part than they that she they made her have in the movie, which I think kind of definitely like I mean affected her performance with how they just kind of made her not really do anything in the in the movie. Uh but which towards the end of the movie, you kind of it makes sense because I really like that like aha reveal moment of like why she takes the form that she does, because she is you see in the end in the sacking of Troy, Zendaya is killed because she was one of the citizens of Troy, and that really stuck with him, and that's why throughout that movie, she take Athena is taking the form of that girl who is Zendaya, but and that's like because it weighs on him and it sits with him the whole movie is like guilt. Yeah. Like she's taking that that personification that that of that by being that girl. Because in the actual story, she comes back, she and and that has to do with Greek mythology as a whole, and especially with like the main theme of that movie being Zeus's law, right? And the whole point of Zeus's law is like you are hospitable to everyone because you don't know who could be a god, because they love to take forms of humans all the time. That's what they do. And like that was the main theme in the Odyssey was was uh Athena was taking form of like the old man thing in inside of Ithaca, like the robes and all that. She actually turns Odysseus into that in the in the actual story, uh, which I know in in the movie he kind of just puts on a robe and like you know what I mean. Like, but she actually like makes him into an old man and and all like beggar looking. So she she plays a big role in the in the actual one. Yeah. And I think that's why people like think her performance was bad, but like I think that's just because of the writing they chose to make her like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

But yeah, well, I was gonna say too, it's such an interesting choice not to actually show the gods either. Like, even in the end, we find out Zendaya's character was just like a personification of his guilt.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

So yeah, it is definitely a choice for sure to go into it that way.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

And even like Calypso, so in the actual story, him being stuck on that island is because Calypso is trapped in there because she's alone and she doesn't want once he's there, she traps him because she wants companionship, and she keeps him trapped by you know how PG 13, I can say, like, yeah, she keeps him trapped by like having sex with him and like all that stuff. And she in the actual story, she he's trying the only way she doesn't want to let him leave. And Athena actually comes and makes her let him go. And in the movie, it was kind of like a little bit of a weak point because it feels like her relationship with Odysseus isn't really explored a lot. And like essentially, like, she is like in the real story, like he's like everything to her, and like the movie doesn't really make their relationship feel like meaningful or emotional. Like when he leaves, she's just kind of like, All right, see ya. And then like like he like dips, like she like so. I don't know, especially because she's played by like Charlie Sturon, who's like a powerhouse, and I don't know. I I just feel like they didn't really go deep, but like you know, I know it's the movie has a runtime, so like I don't like it's not like a bad thing, but I think it's something they could have done just a little better. And then like the nobody thing, I don't know if you know about that. That kind of was like a little bit of a weak point for me because I was that whole like Cyclops like sequence when they were in the cave, I was waiting for that to happen because like I Know the story. So and when that didn't happen, I was like, okay, that kind of like really like takes the weight of it away, and especially with like the weight of Odysseus's character, because when they remove like the nobody trick, which is basically in the original story, Odysseus is trapped in the cave, and like they when they stab his eye out, the the cyclops' eye, the cyclops asks, like who is there, like who did this, like blah blah blah. And he asks like Odysseus's name, and he says, I'm nobody. And he says, Nobody. And it like demonstrates like his intelligence and his and his hubris and is like just kind of like how like cocky he is almost. And I think they try to like go back on it by doing that arrow thing when he shoots the arrow at the last second into the into the cyclops and his like and his men get mad at him, but like they had already blinded him before that. So it kind of felt like just sort of like a like a oops, like, here you go, we'll show you that he's kind of like an asshole, right? Yeah. But like they did it in like kind of like an afterthought way, which I kind of thought took away from it. But I mean, these are like little things that I like I could just find.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

But but yeah, I mean with that kind of getting into the cinematography, uh, I gave it a 10. We talked about a little earlier. Uh yeah, it was just amazing. Incredible. I don't know that there was much I would have changed. Color grading was amazing. Obviously, huge story surrounding this movie was Nolan Nolan filming this all with the IMAX cameras, even trekking through these mountains and these caves and all that junk and kind of the innovations behind uh you know creating these huge blimps around the cameras to protect them one, but also make them a little bit quieter to film with. Just really amazing stuff. I didn't doubt that this movie wasn't gonna be beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, nothing uh nothing different over here. Ten out of ten for me. I think uh I think most Nolan movies are tens, if not very close. I he uh he overexceed my expectations with with the shots that he was able to to do. I think the the different landscapes, colors, the the change in in environments and moods, you can just see it all on the screen. He he encapsulated it really well.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Yeah, obviously, I mean I I think we're all in agreement there. Uh I mean the whole movies, I believe one of the like the tidbits I heard about that was if you stretch the entirety of the film, the 70 millimeter IMAX film, I think it was like some like three miles long, is the movie. Uh and I think it's what 24 frames of that film is one second of the movie. Yeah. I mean, it just shows you like the amount of like absolute like hard work that get went into this, and it shows on the on the screen. I mean, it looks unbelievable. I mean, like, and that that really like I think carries a lot of the movie is is the fact that like every uh new place that you go to on this adventure, I mean, like, it just really sucks you in with how enormous it all looks and like physically imposing the ships, the battles, the enormous sets and stuff gives it a a sense of weight and realism that just like you know, I not a lot of movies in recent memory have even come close to. I mean, I believe it is the first movie to be entirely shot in in 70 millimeter IMAX the from beginning to end, which is just, I mean, absolutely a feat of human engineering and time and care and and skill. And like, you know, that's something that really does speak about him as a director of like caring about the the the medium of this of of filmmaking to like to go that extra mile and do all that. And like it really, it's cool, man, because there's you know, you talk about the director a lot, but like behind the directors, there's all these people that get to I mean, imagine being like the IMAX guys with the cameras that do all that, and like they get to now shooting a move an entire movie in something that they worked their whole lives perfecting, you know, being those those like camera technicians and the editing guys and the people that actually physically cut that film and put it together and and all that, and it all it all translates very well into actually watching the movie. You see that care and attention to detail that that I mean it just it it almost puts it in its in its own class of of movie, you know. I mean it's like I I don't think there's really anything you can really compare to, which is yeah, which no for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

I mean, kind of getting into that too with the set design, pretty perfect here as well. Obviously, I'm sure everybody's read about how uh you know they went to all the real world locations that were uh discussed and talked about during the Odyssey. So actually it says they went across six different countries, which is pretty amazing work, and I imagine that was quite the toll on the cast and the production.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

But yeah, all all that for a really good uh output, really.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Well, and it it it just shows, man. I mean, like it'll never CGI will never come close to that. You know what I mean? It's like it's a lot easier. But I mean, something that I could I guess actually probably the only thing I could compare to would be the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the original, with Peter Jackson. That that's I think a masterpiece. I mean, I think that's probably the greatest trilogy of all time. And in 2000, 2001, those movies hold up so well today because they did the exact same thing of pretty much everything in that movie's practical effects. You know, like every thousands of people with handmade armor, the battle I'm I'm blanking on on the city now, but uh that that was shot over 180 nights, and they had to make a like an actual scaled city where this battle took place. I mean, and it it's amazing like how good it looks in today's stand and today's you know, like atmosphere of films is is and and I I I think that's just awesome. And then on top of that, uh the the film locations I just wanted to add. Um when we were in theaters, the scene where they go to the underworld, um, and they're on that black sand beach. I've actually been there before. Oh, that's sick. That was in Iceland. That was a black sand beach in Iceland. Me and Drew actually were there uh for like a day. Um and they also have all it's it's like one section of of the country as a very large portion of it is all black sand from the volcanic activity there. And like that exact that exact flat area that they were at, I was there with Drew. And getting to there is not an easy way, it's not easy to get there. So like I actually knew exactly like how like where they had to walk from and like drive to and like how they had to like get it. I can't even imagine like having to do all that stuff they did in that environment, which like added just like a layer of like coolness to me watching it because I was like, oh, I did like I know what that looks like and like how that must have how hard that must have been to do all that stuff there. So yeah, it was pretty cool. Hayden, what did you think of the set design?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I th I thought it was I thought it was great. I mean, I I think I think Nolan's budget and like the people that want to work under him, he's obviously gonna get like some of the most talented people in every single position possible, and everyone's gonna be doing their homework to to make sure Nolan invites them again. And I I I think yeah, you're you're just not really gonna see much much too wrong when it comes to the technical aspect of a Nolan movie.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah. Getting into acting, uh, I gave it an eight. I think uh overall the big standouts, Matt Damon and Ann Hathaway, obviously hard to not see them getting an acting nomination here. I think Pattinson was one of my favorites. Uh dude is straight up a chameleon. I feel like he can play any role right now, and it's gonna work. Yeah, I really enjoyed them, but did you guys have any other big standouts? I know you talked about uh John.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

I mean, honestly, like the Tom Holland uptake. I thought he was alright, but uh I mean he does share a lion's share of the uh of the screen time with Matt Damon, you know. Like if you which was kind of like surprising to me because going into the movie, that was like my main like almost worry was a lot of the lead up and like advertisement for this movie was very much based on the star power list of A listers, and I was like really worried that I was like, man, the like the plot might be bad because they're and I was pleasantly surprised that like now granted like a lot of those people were in the movie, but their screen time was very limited, and like a lot of the weight the uh was on the shoulders of Matt Damon and Hathaway, and then definitely Tom Holland. And I I thought it was I thought it was it was good. His but his performance was kind of bland, it was a little monotone, especially in the scene where Odysseus comes home and reveals to Tom Holland or to Talmayus that uh he is his father, and like which is like this huge like moment of like 20 years of anticipation, and like and like he I mean dude, he also went on his own quest of leaving, going to going to Sparta or and all that, and like coming back and like almost getting assassinated, all of that to like try and find his dad, and his dad ends up like being there waiting for him and like saves his life and all that, and then reveals that it is his father, and like he's kind of just like like his face doesn't really change. Yeah, like you would think it would be like this.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah, the dog scene, like it's not even the correct breed. It's like it should be like a basset hound or something, like from the painting, and it's it's not even it's like some I don't know. But definitely like his reaction to that was like a big thing. I feel like that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

It's a little disappointing. It was the whole time and like you think it'd be like this like heartfelt, like like like you think he would like be something, like just like like the like life be sucked out of his face and like be in absolute awe and stuff, like this man that he's been like searching for, like for his own like identity as a son, as for his kingdom, for his mom, because you know, she's over here getting circled by sharks essentially for the past 20 years, and like and and I just I don't think his reaction or I just think that scene was like really like just like fell mute. Like yeah so yeah, that was my my main I I think that was kind of my but for the like remainder of the movie, like before all that, I did I don't think he did bad at all. I thought it was alright. Um I don't know if anyone could have done I don't I don't know, you know. Uh but definitely John Luguzamo was I think amazing. I think he was incredible. I think Robert Pattinson kind of overshadows him a lot. Although I would say, I would honestly say he was kind of better in my opinion, almost. I felt more emotionally connected to him, especially because like if in the movie, he's very over like this is the man that's like stuck by Odysseus's side while he's been gone. And uh and and he's just a slave, by the way. I mean, technically. Um, and like no one, he's kind of just stuck in the corner, like, you know, can't really do anything, and everyone overlooks him, but and he has every reason to kind of abandon Odysseus and like just for his own survival, especially in that scene when they come when like the mercenaries come to like his farm for the sheep and all that, and they they beat him up and I mean and they burn and kill and and all that. Uh, and he's still like he's still waiting for Odysseus to come back. And uh there was a lot of emotional depth there, and I thought he played that incredibly, and and like I wish I saw that kind of performance from Tom Holland. Yeah. Kind of like I feel like that was like it was kind of like a mirror of like how he did exactly what I expected Tom Holland to do, but but yeah, that didn't happen, so you know. But but yeah, for the most part, I think everybody was pretty pretty good. I wish there was more from actually, you know what who also stood out to me a lot was I forget his name in the movie, but like his like right hand man out of his troop, like on the ships and all that. Uh do you know who I'm talking about? Yes, yes, him. I thought he was fantastic. I thought he was really good. And you know, now that I think about it visually, I forgot to include this on the visual thing, but uh the scene where they all turn into pigs. Yeah, that was probably one of the craziest things I've seen on a movie screen, especially knowing that it's all practical. Like they were literally like forming that stuff like like in the scene. Like I I I remember I don't know if I because me and Hayden wouldn't watch it together, like he could tell you, I was literally like like this, like it was that grotesque. It like it was so mind-blowing. It was so cool, man. I mean, like, I can't see it.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

It's gotta be his audition for like a horror movie, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:18

That was that it was, man. I mean, bro, I it was that was so freaking cool and so well done. I mean, I can't even like I can barely even put it into words, just like uh you just have to see it and just to like be able to appreciate it. I mean, it was it was incredible. But yeah, uh Captain Tell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

The uh sound design in the Cyclops uh scene was just like horrific. Like listening to it scream. Yeah. He's gonna get a horror movie. That's probably what he's gonna do next.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

That would be that would be really wicked if he did. I would I would he mentioned something about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, I imagine that's where he goes next, but I don't know what. Yeah, so kind of getting into directing. Uh I gave it an eight. I think obviously it's Nolan. It's gonna be this amazing spectacle of a film. I did have a little bit of problems with the pacing in the middle, like I talked about. Didn't want to knock him too hard on the directing because obviously it's the source material it's coming from. The best parts to me were the beginning and the end, story-wise. Some of the best set pieces as well. Obviously, the we see the the the fall of Troy was a pretty amazing spectacle, but also the insight, right, to kind of break that up across the film for us to see more and more of what actually happened was such a cool thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Can you can you repeat that one more time?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just kind of talking about uh the scale and scope of the directing, but obviously the middle kind of dragged a little bit for me.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yeah, I I feel like the like maybe not the middle, but like when they did return home, I do remember like checking my phone on the time, on the time a couple times. I feel like that was dragged out a little bit. I don't know. I yeah, I I don't know. I there were times where I felt like it was dragging, and then it was pretty like like short window of feeling like that, and then it you get right back into it, and I I would I wouldn't be I wouldn't feel that as much. But uh yeah, I don't know. How do you feel about that, Hayden?

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Um, I would say I was pretty engaged with the movie the whole time. The only scenes I like really, I guess didn't care too much for were like the ones with the I don't know what a character's called, the Charlie's Theron scenes. Like I don't know, that just it didn't I I don't know too much about the the story of the Odyssey. I know a little bit here and there, but um I don't know, I feel like they could have made that a lot more engaging based on how yeah it's portrayed in the story. It's I feel like a little bit more engaging. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, I agree. I think uh like we talked about like Sam was kind of talking about with the source material. I think he just kind of chose to head away from that direction from the original source material, and that made that part a little bit slower. Uh with the soundtrack, I gave it a 10. Um obviously composed by Ludwig, that's my goat. That shit was amazing. Every every scene just had an amazing, uh, you know, incredible, like grand soundtrack um to it. So yeah, I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah, the siren song is like I think it's like top 10 on like the the sound, like the US billboard right now or something crazy, which is it's unbelievable like what that guy's able to do with all those all of his studio equipment. He has like woodwinds and wooden instruments from all around the world that he like rare super rare stuff, and it's it's really cool what he's able to accomplish.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yeah, I thought I thought the score was great. Um my only my only gripe was I don't know if you experienced this as well, but like in the in the theater, it was unbelievably loud. Yeah, like the bass, the bass, the bass for like everything was like almost disorientingly like I was like, I was almost like just like too much, but I mean it's like a it's a it's a skeptical like or like or uh like a spectacle of a movie, so like I can understand it. But like the actual music and stuff was was fantastic for sure. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

It was like 4D sound, dude.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I can see it in my chest, and we didn't even see it in IMAX either. Uh I know she does, but like, but like in yeah, in standard, in standard, it was so I can't even imagine what it was. If it was iMacs, I don't even know if I'd be able to enjoy the movie as much as I could because like it was the problem is like the audio settings were built for IMAX speakers.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

I mean had it set up for regular speakers, so our speakers sounded like they were blown out.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Yeah, it was bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

But it was funny, but the Cyclops crying was like ear piercing loud. Like I imagine, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

I was just saying, like, I think for like for that, I understand like it makes sense because you you try to make it ear piercing loud, but like for us, like like literally someone could have farted in the background, and I feel like I would be getting hit with a freight truck. Like, that's how like the base was in this movie. So bad. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Continue. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

So the theme, uh I gave it a nine. I thought, Sam, you kind of touched on it earlier. Kind of the heavy cost of war was a huge one in this, yeah. Yeah, which you know differs a little bit from the source material. Obviously, that plays a part in it, but there's a lot of other things going on too. I think he had to do this, right? He had to dial down the themes because there are so many in the source material. He had to pick a few, which I was okay with. He made a decision, right? I hate when directors don't make decisions and they just kind of copy and paste. He made a choice to specifically go after these themes, and I appreciate that. Also, the like you talked about the Zeus's law, kind of the moral necessity for to have that social contract was interesting as well. Not necessarily showing Zeus, but the impact that it has on society and the world around you. And then obviously family and homecoming was such a big thing at the end as well. Um, but what did you guys think about the themes?

SPEAKER_03 39:58

I thought I thought that you really I think the themes really pay off a lot at the end, especially like the homecoming part. And like when when he does do that monologue, it really kind of does give you that big payoff of like what the whole movie is leading up to. And uh and I thought it did that really well. Um you really feel it a lot in that monologue. I think that I think that, you know, I don't really know, honestly. I think I think that it was it was good uh in showing it in little ways throughout the movie, but it definitely really just pays off a lot at the end. And I think that's when they address a lot of it. Especially at the end when like he's revealed on the boat, like still alive, and they're gonna sail out to the west. And like it kind of gave me like I don't know if you've seen like Vinland saga, the but that has to do with like essentially very similar themes of like of of basically, you know, you have no enemies, like, you know, peace and and the guilt of what it means to like take lives and like war and and destruction and and I mean I think that's the reason why Athena personifies herself as that girl that was killed in the sacking of Troy. Um because you know, these are real people with real lives and families, just like Odysseus's family. And you know, it's really easy to forget that when it's just like casualties of war and and stuff like that, and put it outside of your mind, which I think is something that um that is kind of like personified in the whole lotus flower part, him eating that and like that and like and you know, calypso is trying to get him to remember and all that. And I think that kind of is like a metaphor for uh people who do go through war and things like that, where you know it is easier to rem to forget and remembering is hard. And and once you do remember and like and put all that stuff into perspective in your mind, like how how realistically like the toll of that is and like how heavy that can be on somebody. And I think Odysseus was the perfect like example of like, you know, there's like two I think John Bernthal's character is kind of like the opposite of that, right? Where like he like he doesn't care, you know, he's happy with like with Troy and like he sees it as like this big win and like you know, and he points out to like his wife, like Helena Troy, like how obvious obviously like the whole point was to go get her back, but like, you know, she doesn't actually love him and he doesn't love her, and like, you know, it was all a ruse because they just want to invade Troy for, you know, like strategic purposes. But you know, they're like eating in the hall and and all that, and I feel like that's like he's supposed to be the perfect like mirror of Odysseus, like how he could be, but he does the opposite, which is basically, you know, relinquish that like area of of his of like his being, you know, and and wants to be the opposite of that, which is like you know, be uh with like humility and like and and uh you know not be like take it as as lightly, you know what I mean? Like he it yeah, it weighs on him and through that monologue at the end, you can you can really uh see all that. I'm sorry if I'm I'm going too far.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

No, you're good, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Yeah, I think I think Sam broke it down really well. Uh one thing I'll add is uh he touched on the fact that uh like like forgetting is easy and remembering is is hard. Um I guess from Penelope's perspective it's the exact opposite. Um because she's going through something like she's she's trying not to forget Odysseus and she's yeah, she doesn't it's it's it's kind of like a different perspective from from hers, and that's a good point. From when you talk about war, that's that's something that that the people waiting at home they they kind of they can't forget. It's like still happening. They can't. It's it's from vice it's vice versa and from her perspective.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Yeah. Getting into the editing, uh I know Sam you had mentioned it was like three miles of film. Uh yeah total in in in feet, the amount of film they used after the ninety-one day shoot was over two million feet, nearly four hundred miles, which is just nuts to think about.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Yeah, they had to cut cut all that out.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yeah, it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

The amount of work that probably took was almost uncomprehensible, but yeah. Yeah, I thought the editing was done pretty good. Obviously, you know, Nolan with his nonlinear storytelling definitely holds up here. Um, I think it was done pretty good, especially with the the the fall of Troy, right? And we kind of keep seeing it clip back to that and kind of the trauma that comes out of that is a really neat thing to see.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah, I can't wait for the Criterion collection to come out with a $2,000 bundle of the entire film. Yeah. Watch.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

I actually have a question. Um would you would you watch it again? Like at home.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, the Odyssey. Would you watch it again? I think so. One thing that was I talked to Tyler about, like Oppenheimer is super rewatchable to me. But some Nolan movies, I'm like, dude, I don't have the brain power to sit down and rewatch it. So I was kind of debating that myself. I think I would at least once, but after that, I don't know if I could go back in.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

Like, dude, like if if I come like if I come downstairs and someone has Interstellar on, like I'll sit down and like I could watch Interstellar like, you know, anytime, or like even the prestige, which I know we're gonna get into, I could watch that like a hot. Like, I feel like sometimes when movies are this big, like this much of a spectacle, and like to have this much scale and scope and stuff. Because honestly, I don't think there's a lot of brain power that goes into watching the Odyssey, but like it's like it's it's almost just like it's so much of a movie that like I don't know if I could like just like turn like oh the Odyssey is on. Let me turn that off and like sit down and like like it it was very much, I feel like something you watch in theaters. I probably would watch it again just to like just because you know we're into movies and like just to like have a second viewing and all that. But yeah, I don't know if it's really like I think it's kind of like a a one and done sort of sort of film, which is like not a bad thing. I just wanted to like see what your what your thought on that was as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

I agree. No, like if I'm scrolling on like my cable box and I see this on halfway through, I'm probably not thinking it dude.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

I don't think I don't think you really could, man. I mean, especially or even like do my parents, like like I told them about it, like I don't even know if I could put it on. I don't even know if they would like I don't think it's it's not easily digestible as a movie. Yeah, you would be like you you have to really like movies, I think, to like really appreciate this. Like if you're not like a movie buff and like someone like tries to put this on to you, like I don't know how much they're really gonna enjoy it. Yeah. Just because like we know all the stuff that goes into this or whatever, but like someone your average Joe, I feel like, just be sitting there and be like, this is loud, and like and like who is this again, or whatever, like the jumping and stuff. Like, I I mean, yeah, but but you know, that's not really like that that speaks more about the person watching it than than the movie, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

I will say, I think what what happened, and I could be completely wrong here, I think Nolan made Tenet, and he's like it all comes back to Tenet. He's like sh he's like shit, like okay, let me make okay, let me make real stuff. Like Oppenheimer existed, Odyssey existed. I think I think once you give Nolan his creativity back, once you give him so Oppenheimer couldn't, obviously couldn't, like, you know, like you can't do a lot with that. I think once you give him back his creativity box after doing you just needed two movies to like reassure himself that he's the van. Now he's gonna hop back in his it, like Justin said, might be horror, but I think he's gonna hop back in his own. I would love to see an original.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

I'm gonna I want his originals back. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

His originals are great. He made 101 one bad movie, and I think he got a little worried.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Well, yeah, reeled it back in a little. Yeah, just a little bit. Well, if you if I mean realistically, that kind of makes sense because if you think about it, like these are these are pre-established IPs, you know, like the Odyssey is already something that exists. You know, Oppenheimer is something that really happened and all that. So like he really gets to showcase his directing, his directing uh abilities, right? Which is why those movies are both these are really, really good. But and which we already know he's a great director. And I I think Oppenheimer was amazing and all that, but like they're already established, you know, IPs. And I think the like Magnum opus, like the like perfect storm of Nolan was when you when you have his directing ability matched with an original story, and and then you get stuff like Interstellar, and then you get stuff like the prestige, where like those those are the ones where it's like, yeah, that's that's like prime, hall of fame type.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

I don't want to be wrong here, but I I I I would say you could throw in the Dark Knight, and you could throw in the Dark Knight Rises because I mean you have unlimited possibility. You can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

That isn't a stop established IP in the characters, but the story was completely original. Like, like that's why they were so good and why they really changed the superhero genre at the time. Because I mean, if you think about it, the Batman begins, what, eight years before that? We had we had Batman and Robin with the bat nipples and fucking Tim Burton's like like you know what I mean? Like that's Batman, but it's but it's it Nolan did his own original take on the Batman, and like that's why those three films are just incredible, you know? Like visually, like, you know, from a director's standpoint and from uh a plot and writing standpoint as well. Like, I mean, dude, the the character development in those movies with with Christian Bale, like writing, writing his origin story almost into that was I mean, I don't think we really ever got uh Batman origin uh before that. And the way they did it wasn't like, you know, with Spider-Man, like we see like three we it's all like very like you know, like cut and paste. Cut and paste origin, and like he really did his own thing with it, and like I think that's I mean that's the whole reason why those movies are so amazing, you know?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Because he's yeah, I think that I'm calling it horror movie written and directed by Christopher Nolan next.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

That would be that would be peak. I would love a what would you what would you think like because I mean you say horror is like it's like kind of a broad genre. Like, I mean you have like slasher movies, you have like like you know, more like like psychological horror, which I that's probably what I would say he would probably get into, or like if he was to do that, but I don't know. I mean, what do you think he would like what kind of premise do you think he would? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

After after the pig thing, like give me like a yeah, give me like a like an alien shapeshifter, like yes, blending into humanity kind of thing, or something like that. That'd be kind of sick.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Like almost like this thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Yeah, or like clayface, or I want it. I was thinking like Clayface or like uh even like in Marvel, like the scrolls, like something like that would be kind of interesting too. Not with the Marvel, but like it's a story around that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

No Disney. No, no, no. We don't we don't want we don't want corporate overlords in our movies, please. Yeah, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

No, like kind of like we just talked about overall enjoyment. I really enjoyed this. I gave it a nine, but maybe one of the coolest and most hyped movies of the decade, I'd say. But again, really cool spectacle in IMAX. Don't know if I'd go back and watch it anytime soon to kind of just need a breather after it. But overall, the movie I gave a 8.7 out of 10 or 87, so I was pretty high on it.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Yeah, I would say, yeah, I would say probably um, yeah, I'd probably be like probably like 8.2, like low eights, I would say for me personally. Um, but it definitely it definitely was amazing. I mean, it was a great movie. I enjoyed like the uh I mean it was almost like going to like an event, you know. When we I remember when me and him finished watching it, we came out of the movie, like we sat like I didn't even know what to say. Like we were like silent in the car. Like it was like so much even process. Like I like really, like it really did kind of leave you speechless.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Uh and in No, Hayden was talking, you just couldn't hear him. Your ears are still ringing.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Right. Probably a little bit of that. It was like I was just like, what like tonightist? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Yeah, I gave it a I'll I'll give it an eight, just flat. Yeah. I don't want to give it a seven, nine. I feel like that's like being what it is. But I I loved it, but it's just it's not super rewatchable. It's not it's not something that's for me specifically, but I really appreciated like what he did with it. I think if any other director did that movie, I know it'd be it would be yeah, yeah, I just maybe Inoratu could do that, but I don't think anyone else.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

Yeah. All right, cool. So yeah, kind of just jump into the next film. Uh The Prestige. Obviously, one of Nolan's earlier works. Uh I'm if I'm not mistaken, this was his first like real blockbuster, right? After Memento. Yes. Memento really opened the doors for him. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So thousand six. Yeah. So this really picked it up. Obviously, you see that in the cast, two real star-studded cast uh coming in here.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

But McEnz came out in 2005. Sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

So obviously it follows uh two rival Victorian London magicians, uh Robert Angier and Alfred Borden. Uh and their kind of obsession with creating the ultimate trick, right? They're going back and forth with each other trying to be become the better magician, and then ultimately ultimately it leads to the this teleportation illusion that leads to tragic mutual destruction of both of them. This is based off of a novel. Funny enough, the novel is kind of based off the uh feud between Nikola Tesla and uh Thomas Edison. Thank you. And so yeah, it's it's funny how this kind of carried over over time from adaptation to adaptation to adaptation to get this. Um, but I think it was a really cool movie, a really cool idea following these magicians. I haven't really seen anything like this before.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

I love this movie, man. Oh my gosh. Man, I've been trying to get Sam to watch this for so long. And he I got asked to do this, this this podcast, and I was like, dude, I'm I'm inviting Sam to do this because like he has to watch the movie then. We watched it together.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Oh my gosh, man. I I I love this film. First time I watched it, I watched it with my brother. I forget how old I was, but I think it was like the perfect age. It was like 15. Like, this is like a such a like you're like so shocked by the ending. I say I it got Sam. I didn't know I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

I'm 24, dude, and I felt that way. So like I I dude, yeah. I mean, it was it was it definitely after watching it, it's become definitely probably my top three for sure from him. I mean, I mean it was it was incredible. And and uh it was really fun watching it with this guy, man, because like you know, you could see like I'm watching we're watching the movie and like it's like that stereotypical where like he's like looking at me. I'm like looking at him and he wants to see me like react to it, and like it was it was really fun. And like, and I think I did, I think towards the end I did kind of start to figure it out at the end, and like and I remember being like, dude, like I w when uh towards the end of the movie when he's in the jail when Borden's in the jail, and uh what's his name? Is it Fletcher? The or his his like his sidekick basically. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah. I forget his name. But and and I start to reel, like you're like realizing like, man, he doesn't really talk, and like and all that, and like and then at the end I started to piece together when he like hugs when he hugs his daughter, and I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, yeah, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

He said he said that like 15 minutes before like the revealed. Before the reveal, he just thought it was a talk, and I was like, I was like trying to hold it in. I was trying to hold it together.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

It was it was really fun, man. That was that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Yeah, kind of getting into that the characters, I gave it an eight. I thought the characters are really uh well done and fleshed out here. Even getting into the side characters. I mean, really, I know the uh main actors Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. That's stacked enough for any movie, but then you get into Michael Cain, his his his character super drawn out, Scarlett Johansson's character super drawn out. I thought it I thought it was a really well done movie when it came to the characters.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Yeah. I I thought they I thought they did great. Yeah. I'll give it I'll give it a nine. I think I think Borden and Engier like working off each other was incredible. You have Michael Cain as kind of like their the middle mirror. Yeah, like he's he's literally perfect for that role. I mean Scarlett Johansson as like a helper for for shows. That's like who else would you want? Andy, Andy Circus is like perfect for for his role. I couldn't think of any that he looks like someone who used to do that. Tiny and got the got the old man, like British look. So I don't know. I think they did they did great with the the characters.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah, I agree. I mean I think I think I think Borden is a perfect character. Christian Bale plays plays him very well, and I think characters like that very well. He he gives like he he has a very like mysterious and restrained like uh quality when he's playing him, which kind of like it kind of tricked me in the movie. Like I definitely went back and forth in the movie, like who I thought was like the asshole, right? Which it kind of does to you. Like I remember being like like Borden's a dick, and then like being like, you know, Angie's a dick and whatever, and kind of going back and forth. And I think Christian Bale's performance does that because you know where like I felt that way was just because he doesn't give you he is very mysterious in his performance and like he doesn't really show a lot to so you're kind of just like wary of like his motivations and stuff. And like whereas Angier is more ambitious, emotional, and like you can definitely see like his obsession come out a lot more, and uh which makes like their con like the conflicts a lot more believable. And like I think Christian Bale plays it it kind of reminds me a little bit of of him playing Batman, you know, obviously like a year before this, where like him as he's very reserved and very uh kind of like keeps things close to the chest, which I think he does in both of these movies, and I I think that gives his character a lot more like depth of like where you as like the viewer have to like kind of like really pay attention to what he does to get because like with Hugh Jackman, you know what Hugh Jackman wants. Like he wants to be the best magician, which they both kind of want, but like he's a lot more outspoken about it, and like his motivation's a lot more outspoken. Where with Christian Bale, you kind of have to guess more, which kind of like uh keeps you on your toes and like really not you have like it's really hard for you to expect what's gonna happen, which makes you know makes a movie a lot more fun. So I thought he killed it as as Borden for sure. I think everyone really did, but that in particular, the way he plays a character, really, really kind of made it his own, which I liked.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Yeah. Getting into cinematography, I gave it a seven. I might surprise people, but I hate uh these grey movies. I know that was the intent for this to make a super like noir-styled film, but I can't help but compare it to other Nolan movies that uh use a lot more like different colors and the color grading. So I had to knock it a little bit there. But other than that, I did like the art style. It's kind of like this retro tech kind of noir, I don't even know what you call it.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Victorian era, yeah, yeah. Almost like um kind of like how the uh the Sherlock Holmes movies with Robert D Robert Dowdy Jr., like that kind of futuristic yet old. I it's kind of like that steampunk almost. Yeah. Not too much. Uh you you kind of see it in like a good example of it in the prestige was uh the the the new machine that Michael Cain makes for the bird disappearing. And he has like he has like that whole like back piece with all the gears and like retractable stuff and all that. Like I thought that was a really cool like you know, like stylistic choice and all that where like it's very mechanical but yet like futuristic at the same time, which is like makes sense of like something in that period. Like if there was some like kind of futuristic technology like that, that is like what it would look like. I I thought that was a good example of that. It was really cool. But yeah, I would agree. I I think I think that the cinematography isn't really the strong point of the movie because which I think is kind of like understandable because really this movie is really carried by the plot and like the the storytelling aspect which carries it like incredibly. I mean the nonlinear storytelling, I think this is like one of the best examples of Nolan's trademark of that, you know. Uh the uh like Nolan presents the story in that way, um, like moving between the different periods and perspectives, which kind of keeps you always guessing, and uh which kind of makes the plot a little difficult to follow, but the confusion of that jumping around is like definitely intentional. And uh it almost like the way that the movie is set up like that is like the magic trick itself, right? Is like that misdirection in magic tricks. Like if I was like visually like doing a card trick, like all that misdirection and all that, it's almost doing the exact same thing to you as a viewer with that jumping around, and then like and obviously with the name being the prestige, like and the end of like that big reveal at the end is the prestige of the movie. Like the whole movie is one big magic trick in itself, which I think is like like like you know, that's just like that's 11 out of 10 for me. You know what I mean? Like that's just incredible, bro. And like, so yeah, I think that does carry like a lot of like what you said, like the kind of like the weaker parts of the cinematography kind of makes it not as noticeable when when all that is going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

What'd you think of the cinematography Aiden?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Uh I yeah, I I wouldn't be so harsh just to give it a seven. I'd give it an eight. I think I think Nolan does a really good job at transition shots, especially when you're dealing with like close conflicts or like something's like sudden sudden changes, or like, for example, like he does a really good job at hiding the fact that they're like dressing up as each other and like like rating each other's kind of events and trying to sabotage each other. I think he did a really good job of make putting them on screen obvious enough without without you being able to notice them, even though they're like the main characters in the movie. Like if you rewatch that stuff, they're so easy to spot. But since you're since you're focused on the main act and you're you're it's kind of like it's kind of its own cool little cinematography thing. Like you're focused on the main act, even though he's in the picture, like you don't see him. It's kind of it's kind of like its own little magic trick in cinematography. I thought that was really good. Um, I think Nicola Tesla's like house. I thought they some really cool shots from there. Um But I don't I don't yeah, like Sam said, I don't think that was the main takeaway from this movie. I think this movie uh its plot points and even I think we're about to get into it. Even its sound design was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

Yeah, yeah. With the yeah, the sound design, I thought it was really well done, especially in the soundtrack too, I thought it was really good. Composed by an English musician by the name of David uh Chulayan. I don't know if I've heard of him before, but I did really enjoy the soundtrack and the overall sound design of the film was uh really well done.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

Yeah, I'll I'll since I was just talking about it, yeah. When they did the uh the trans the Transported Man, I believe that's what it's called. The illusion of the transported man. Um when he did the original one, Borden, when Borden did the original one, like the the sound design with the ball bouncing and everyone getting quiet and the door shutting, just unbelievable. I think that that is when you really realize, like, oh like this this movie, like he just stepped up his game, it it's about to get serious. Like, how did he do that? Like we were doing like bird tricks and cages and and killing birds and fooling people, but now we're you know, he he was just in that room and now he's not. Like, you gotta understand the time frame the or the the time that this is in.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

This is like yeah, it's mind-blowing for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

There's no technology, but the fact that Tesla is even like has light bulbs is is incredible for for the era. So it's it was just yeah, really good sound design. Uh I wasn't I uh too familiar with like the the the like the composer you said, the baby guy. Yeah, yeah, I'm not too sure, not too sure who he is, but he he did a good job. And I think I just think the the times where it gets quiet and it gets really loud in this movie are are just build on the suspense really well.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

I think yeah, I I love to like go off of that because I think that's like something I feel like should be utilized in movies more. It really, really, really like puts you on the edge of the seas of viewers like when sound drops out on a film. And like it it it really sucks you in almost because like the it's just it's another sense of your like perspective that you get to like use is because obviously it's a movie, like so you know it's visual visually based, but using that audio can really take scenes to a next level. Like me and Hayden talk about it a lot, but in the The Kingsman, the Oh oh specifically. I believe it's a third movie, I think it's called The King's Man, which is like the prequel. Yeah, the King's Man. It's set in like World War One. There's a scene there where they are like basically going across no man's land out of the trenches, and it just goes completely silent. And I remember just it was like awe like awe-inspiring. It was incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Theaters, it's just unreal. Yeah, I guess. I wasn't expecting that out of that movie, but wow, that that's one of the best theater experiences I ever had. Just that quiet moment when they're recrawling. It was so quiet in the theater. Yeah, and they were crawling in the trenches. It's like almost pitch black, like they're crawling in the trenches, and then it was then they just like go at it, and then everyone's starting at each other. Yeah, but there's still no music, there's nothing, you can just hear everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

And it's just it felt so real. It's nice to like, yeah, not every scene needs like a huge score behind it, you know what I mean? And I definitely think there's parts of the movie that like that they did they did that, and it it definitely helps a lot. And and uh also like the sound design of the uh like the electrical, like the actual machine and like the uh like the lightning like zerps and like all that stuff, like like like dude, that's uh it felt real, you know what I mean? And uh I I I enjoyed quite a bit of of of how they did that. And uh I actually have a question for you. I don't know if it was a good time or not, but uh one of the one of the points of that movie where he's asking him like what knot did you tie? And he says, I don't know. Do you think he knew?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

I don't know, because I I was at that point in the time, like you talked about how you keep flip flopping. Like I genuinely felt bad for him. I was like, He's a good guy. Like he just yeah, in a bad situation. And then he started becoming an advantage. Actually he maybe he did know.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

That was a good point to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Yeah. I Dude, and it's kind of like, you know, it's it's hard to like say. And I I do kind of think that's like cause that by the end of the movie, like you're like you're like, okay, like Borden's a good guy, like kind of thing, like where you know, like that's the way it kind of ends, is like you because you're kind of wrestling back and forth the whole movie, like who do you really want to root for, right? And then by the end, like that's how you are. But like that was something that left with me. Was at the end was I did feel that way, but then I'm like remembering I'm like, wait a minute, like this all started because of that, and like I feel like it you kind of forget about it, and you're like, wait a minute, like, did he know what not he was tying? And like, like, you know what I mean? And I don't know, I just thought that was kind of a cool part. Like, got left left.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

I'm sure somebody on Reddit has gone back and figured out what knot it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

He he he I'm pretty sure he changed the knot.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

Yeah. I mean they they take the camera away, but he untied the original one, yeah. And then he started to do a different one, which you you would imply that he he changed the knot if he's gonna untie it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

But then he then he lies, right? Because he's saying, I don't know, right? Which is like, but like as a viewer, you don't know because they don't show you, right? So like you know, he kind of even though like by the end you're like, okay, this is the good guy of the film, but like it that still stuck with me. I'm like, is he really though?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:11

Because like I mean, he he that is an intense moment and someone is dying, and it that might be a good thing. It's his life though.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

I mean, it's like the catalyst for this whole movie, right? Because like after that moment, that's when it they their rivalry started, like you know, and it is all it is off of him making that decision whether or not he did, and as a viewer, you don't know if he did change it or not, but you know, I just thought that was a really big part that's kind of just left up in the air as a plot point, which I just thought that was I just want to get your thought on that as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

So with the set design, uh I gave it an eight, like I said, it was a little bit gray for me, but uh I did some a little bit of reading. The filmmakers were trying to go for instead of like a stuffy period drama look, they were attempting to make a Victorian version of like an industrial Tokyo, which I thought was pretty cool. It's it's such a neat way to kind of go about like we kind of talked about the uh the whole punk or I wouldn't say like steampunk design, I guess. I thought it was really interesting, but what'd you guys think of the overall set design and the buildings and stuff?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

Um Hayden, do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

Or yeah. Um I I mean it's it's set in old times. Uh uh it was made in 2006, probably started filming maybe a year before that. I think they did great. I mean, the the old stages look great. They they looked really good. Um they obviously used a couple of different ones, which I think is great. Like they weren't just going back to the same town, same stage. Like, you know, they used like four, I believe. Maybe it might have been three or four. I think that's really cool. You know, you see movies like this nowadays, and you know, everyone, you know, especially when it's like set in old time, you know, they keep going back to the same location to to keep doing their their stuff. And I I liked it. I I'd give it an eight as well. I feel like that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

I would I like I like kind of like the subtlety of the like actual set pieces of like the background thing. So like I think the best set pieces in the movie are where the magic is done. It kind of gives you that window into like behind the scenes of production, like what it would take to do magic at that time, like especially like with like the underneath stuff. So like the trap doors and like the falling underneath the the stage and the the the the tanks and like all the stuff that like goes into especially when it's um Algier or Angier is like trying to replicate the teleporting trick and like how they have like the two doors with the trapdoors underneath and like all like the like mechanics underneath the stage and stuff like that. Um and then Borden's apartment I thought was a really good set piece of the time, the scenes that are in there. It very much looks like a magician's apartment from the Victorian area, like all of like the like alchemy bottles everywhere, and like and like little like tr like knickknacks and like stuff he does for tricks is all in there, and like you could tell like it kind of gives you that visualization of the obsession that these guys have, where it's like their every minute of every day is trying to like become the the best of what they do and outperform the other ones. And so, like of course, like his whole like apartment is just filled with like everything magic and and all that, so you can tell like all he does is like you know, and especially like when he meets that girl, I forget her name, the first his first like love interest, and like he like tries to go inside and like she doesn't let him, and then like she comes in and like he's already inside the apartment or whatever. So, like obviously he's got like some some trapdoor situation, like which like why would he even need that? You know what I mean? Like, like, but like it just shows you like that's like all he does, you know. Yeah, which was cool. I think I think uh like Michael Cain's like dude, the the set piece of like where the machine is in that like box, yeah, um, and it's just sitting in like that attic space, like linear kind of backroom space, like gives it that mystery of like what is what is in there, you know, like because you don't know. I I thought that looks really good, and like every scene in there was was very like you know, suspenseful. I thought I thought it was good. I think the city looks good. I mean, realistically, like a lot of the I feel like a lot of the time you spend in the movie really isn't in the open city too much. A lot of it's spent inside of like theaters and like and uh like venues and and like little rooms and apartments, yeah, and all that, which you know, I I kind of I kind of liked it. You know, it was it kind of gave more emphasis on like the actual story and not just like we're in London, you know what I mean, running around and all that. Like so I thought it was good. I thought it was good.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Yeah. I mean getting into the acting, uh, I gave it a nine here. Obviously, kind of headlined by Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale. I think that they were both pretty masterful in this. Uh like we said, their acting is just such a good back and forth uh with your kind of internal dialogue with yourself throughout this film, trying to decide whose side, who's the good guy, who's the bad guy at the end of the story. And to me, I mean, in the end, I I think both of them are bad guys. That's what I kind of took away from it. But just that that whole time, their incredible acting really built these really strong characters, which made this movie so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

Yeah, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that from you. Ten out of ten. Yeah. Man, if if you have Christian Bale and and Hugh Jackman, and you're you're you get to the end of that movie and you don't know which one is supposed to be the good guy or the bad guy. I I think that's just that's peak movie right there. Yeah. Got Mike Michael Cain playing his old-fashioned role. You got Rebecca Hall did an amazing job playing Borden's wife. She's incredible, super underrated actor or actress, sorry. Andy Circus is amazing. Charlotte Johansson. I mean, I think she, I don't think anyone else could have played that role better. Yeah, I think I think this was 10 out of 10. I I don't think it gets better than that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:52

Yeah, I mean, especially I think I'd I'd agree with you in 10 out of 10 acting, because realistically, I mean, the movie, like, you know, there's not a lot of like crazy action set pieces or like or or you know, huge spectacles. You know, the boatload of the movie is carried on on the acting and the writing and the character development. And and it was it it had me completely engaged from start to finish and and all that, uh, which, you know, is is kind of a hard thing to do movie-wise, you know. You know, there were like, you know, when the actual tricks are being performed, obviously that's like the action, I guess, in the film. But like, you know, that's like there's a lot of stuff that goes on between those, and it's still just as exciting because you know that like the movie itself is a trick. And so like you're trying to pay attention to everything, and like that's like that's just to me, that's that's 10 out of 10 writing and and and uh like from a screenplay perspective of like you know, like you know, it's it's hard to like make two people in a room talking like just as exciting as you know, uh shit blowing up in front of you or whatever, and like, you know, cosmic fights or whatever, like like I mean, I I it's it's it's just uh yeah, it's a 10 10 for me, man. I mean it was it was it's I I can't really put into words like how good it was, you know. Uh because especially with something like Interstellar, acting in Interstellar is great, but like there's a lot of like weight of the movies carried with with the spectacle, like with the like space travel, with like you know, all that kind of stuff behind it. Where like, you know, you don't get a lot of that in this movie, but it's uh to me, I think they're s on par with how good they are, which you know speaks a lot about this film and like the writing and the acting in this for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:41

Before you wrap it up, just uh I forgot to mention uh David Bowie played Nicola Tesla, and he was fantastic too.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

So I just realized that was him. Holy shit. That is David Bowie.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:52

That is Debbie Bowie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

That's credible.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:55

Yeah. Actually, another good point of that, now that you I I I really thought about this as soon as you said in the introduction to this about how it the this story is kind of like a metaphor for the rivalry between Edison and Tesla, which made me realize, like thinking about it, there is they kind of touch on that in the movie where like when Angier is in what where's he at? Is he in Colorado? Yeah, something like that, Colorado Screams. There is like that looming like like aspect of Edison, because they bring that up, Edison's men, and like Edison has like this gang task force almost like like hunting Tesla and all that. And like, and when he does get like metaphorically, it kind of like they kind of personify that when he like when Angier does finally get the machine, we see Edison's men burn down Tesla's uh Tesla's like lab and all of his stuff and everything, and they finally like catch up to him, which kind of like like yeah, definitely kind of symbol symbolizes like Angier is Edison while while like I'm sorry, uh Borden is is the Tesla of the story. Yeah which uh which I kind of didn't really pick up on until you said that, which is which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

Uh yeah, um getting into theme, obviously theme is such a huge thing in this movie. Uh biggest one being the destructive nature of rivalry, right? Um they both are and uh are just obsessed with going after each other and their their own personal identities, and then obviously the the personal cost uh in your personal life of kind of wanting to meet perfection and art and and this movie their art is the art of illusion, right? Being magicians. Such a big thing in this movie, but obviously there's a bunch of different themes you could dive in into this one. So what'd you guys think?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Uh yeah, uh discussing rivalry obviously is probably like the the main theme of the movie. When when talking about that, I feel like uh yeah, it it uh it was more about the destruction from the rivalry rather than the competitive nature of the rivalry. I feel like that was more of the theme rather than how how competitive can these guys be. I I think he I think Nolan really cared about showing like what is happening into these guys' lives because of this and how they're changing as as individuals and how their families are changing. Yeah, I don't know if I'll I'll let you go, Sam.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

Yeah, I mean, so obviously like the central team is obsession. They become like so focused on defeating each other that, yeah, like you were saying, they're sacrificing almost everything else in their lives. I mean, if you think about it, Borden plan Borden's plan in the end does work, right? Uh, but like if you think about where he is, like he's on death row waiting to be hanged while he has like a child who is, you know, like I mean, if any part of his plan went wrong, like he would be hanged, killed, and his child would be, you know, like he'd be giving up all of that kind of stuff. Uh and then obviously, like Angier, he gives up everything in his own life too, like with his love interest after I mean he develops like a relationship with Scarlett Johansson, and he kind of just shoves that in the trash by when he asks her to basically like go and spy on Borden, and it really shows like how much like he doesn't actually care about her. Like his only goal is what he wants, and he kind of just uses her and all that. Um, which, you know, if you think about it, like she like was there for him after, you know, the death of his fiancee and and and all that. Um it kind of just shows you like the kind of man he is, which is you know, one that's obsessed with not only like not only like the trick or like trying to be the better magician, but just obsessed with himself, right? And I think Borden is kind of like instead of he's also obsessed with the trick, but he's not obsessed with himself, he's obsessed with getting defeating Angier and basically like holding up the mirror of his own self-destruction and making him destroy himself. And I don't know, they kind of plays off very well with each other. Um, and it kind of just like examines like the relationship between truth and illusion. And then because you know, we talked about that like throughout the movie, you really kind of wondering, like, you wrestle with like who's the good guy, who's the bad guy, you know, like who's doing what and what's real and what's not, and like, and it kind of asks the question of the audience of like, do you actually want to know the truth, or do you would you rather be just like simply like you know, amazed by the spectacle, you know? And I think I mean it's just such a deep film when it comes to like the writing and the the plot actually, and it it just makes to me like that's that's what makes a movie. Like that's that's a movie to me, man, is just like the the provoking thought out of the audience, like making you think and like you know, really analyze like what's going on on screen. And like honestly, I would love I I probably am gonna watch that movie another two, three times just to like I'm sure there's all kinds of things that I missed, you know, from like only watching it once. So yeah, I mean I think I I'd give that a 10 out of 10. You know, I think that's this is like the the peak of of movie writing. Is this is like if I was uh go to a film class and they were like go write a script, I would probably use this as a an an inspiration for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

Yeah, I gave it an eight. I think obviously like you kind of just talked about it mirrors the structure of a magic trick trick through the uh the film itself, which is just super, super cool. Such an interesting way to go about filmmaking. What'd you think about the overall editing, Aiden?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:26

Yeah, I thought it was great. Um, especially the like the gun scene. Like that that was that was done super well. Like the way they like showed loading it in and like take like he took out the thing and so it was like a loaded weapon. Um not only that, but uh like every time like someone would fall through the like I hate when when movies like like someone like falls and like the timing is off. Like you can just tell like that is not like when they would have fell. I feel like they they they timed him falling through the door and landing on the bag like perfectly every time. So yeah, I I I thought it was great. I don't I don't think this movie has any misses. You you're asking someone, this is this has been in my top five since since I saw it. So I yeah, I love this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:09

I I think the editing is definitely a 10, which is speaks a lot about it because the like the way that this movie is done, I you kind of need the editing to be a 10 for this to be as good. If if it wasn't, I don't know if this movie would we'd be holding it in the same like conversation that we are now, which really kind of like tells you about how much editing does affect a movie. You know, you could really do everything right and then if the editing room, you know, decisions are made that like that could really tank how how a movie does. And I think they nailed it. And I think they needed to nail it, and they did. And I'm I mean, I I can't imagine, you know, like it really playing out any other way than it did. It definitely made the movie for sure. It was it's spectacular. Like Aiden said, there's not a lot, there's not a lot of bad with this movie, for sure. Not a lot done wrong, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

Yeah, overall enjoyment. I gave it an eight. Uh I'd say mainly I gave it an eight because coming into this, I'm not like that into magic at all. And like not really my I'm not a big period piece person, so when I initially saw this, I was like, oh, this might drag for me. But um, it was pleasantly surprising. I I it's a really fun film. I didn't know about the twist, so yeah, pretty electric for me at the end. I was like, what is going on? How did I miss this? But leading me to overall score of an 8.2. Um again, not my per se cup of tea when it comes to Nolan. I'm more of a space sci-fi guy, but uh this one really pleasantly uh surprised me. I was shocked how high I was on this.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

Yeah, I'll say overall enjoyment for me, I maybe put that at a nine. I don't I don't know how to scale that. I I guess I don't want to keep giving it tens everywhere. It's not it's not like a perfect movie, but it's it's pretty darn good. For my overall score, um, I'd it'd probably be I'm I'm in between a nine flat and like an eight-nine. I really like this one. I obviously you can't can't move can't rate a movie a 10 because you know you never know if you're gonna see one better. So I I think giving it somewhere around nine is fair. That's just my opinion, though. I'll let you guys see.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:14

Dude, overall, I would say uh I would yeah, I'd be in the ballpark VD. I'd say this is like nine-five for me, you know, to be honest. I I I'd if I could give it a 10, I probably would, honestly. Give it a 10, man. I nobody stopped. Dude, I'd give it a 10, man. I'd give it a 10. I I'll give it a 10. Uh, I mean, dude, like if other movies come around that are tens, they can be tens too. I mean, I don't think this is the greatest movie of all time or whatever, but like out of out of enjoyment, you know what I mean? I it's a overall enjoyment. That's a 10 for me, man. I mean, from start to finish, like, you know, I I was completely engaged. The twist, the acting, like, I mean, the writing, the the fact that the whole movie is one big magic trick. And I mean, I I just I to me that's like that's just that's what I expect out of a movie. I like I want to be, I wanna be, it should be like a a a ride that you never want to get off of. And like that's that's kind of how I felt with this. Uh and just it kind of like it kind of like the dark knight. I think it was very similar to the dark night, to be honest, uh, with with the way that the the writing was and the and the storytelling and the nonlinear. And I think both of those I think the dark knight and the prestige are probably the best examples of Nolan's nonlinear storytelling. And I think that's why I mean if if if you talk to most people like the dark knight is is in their top three movies, you know what I mean? And and I think it that has to do with exactly what this movie does as well. Same thing. It's completely engaging and thought-provoking and fun. And and I was kind of like you. I I I was exactly just like you. That's the reason I hadn't seen it. Uh was because like, yeah, I looked at the I I looked at the the era, the time era, and like also just didn't really know much about it. And it just kind of turned I was just like, oh, this is gonna be something I have to like sit through. You know what I mean? So I and so like when Hayden was like, all right, we gotta like watch this for this pot, like, you know, use this as I was like, alright, like fine, like I'm down. And like I was blown away with how amazing it was. I mean, like, I was I was it was it was it was incredible. I loved it. I loved it. I really think this is probably yeah, top three Nolan movie. I mean this and Dark Knight and Interstellar, I think is is is his best work for sure. I mean I can't I can't think of of how to do. I mean, realistically, it's like the reason I want to give it a 10 is because there was something that could be done better for this movie, I I don't know what it is. I don't think I don't think there's like if you know, uh tell me because I can't I can't I couldn't tell you. You know what I mean? I think everything's done just as as good or if not better than it, you know, it could have been. So I I yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

Awesome. Well, yeah, so next we'll transition into doing a Christopher Nolan draft. So yeah, this will be a snake style draft. Um you know, kind of imagine that you're doing like a fantasy football draft filling the the positions, except we're gonna do it with actors, soundtrack, and objects from all of Christopher Christopher Nolan's uh movies. So we'll have six categories. It'll be lead actor, actress, because he doesn't have any lead actresses yet, supporting actress, object. So this can be anything. Um, an example would be like the Batmobile, right? And then soundtrack. So just pick your favorite soundtrack from you can still pick the Batmobile, don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:31

No, I just like that category. That's cool. Like that's that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

The soundtrack is obviously just your favorite soundtrack from Nolan that you would take, and then wildcard can be literally anything from any of the other categories. So I went ahead and spun a wheel beforehand. So Sam will go first and then Hayden, then me, I'll have two picks because of Snake back to Hayden and then Sam, and we'll just keep going. Don't feel like you have to pick the categories in order either. You can take them wherever you want. So, Sam, if you want to start, you can get the first pick.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:02

For sure. Let me see. Yeah, I would say for supporting for supporting actors, are we doing how many? Can I do one, two, or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:10

You just take one. You take one supporting act actoring actor. Any of his movies, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

Well, yeah, dude, I'd Michael Cain. Easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:19

I can't.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:20

Which movie would you pick?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:22

From probably nah, I mean, dude, obviously that's like a very obvious choice. I don't know. I like him in Interstellar a lot, too. I think that's kind of overlooks. I like he kind of gives like the emotional weight to that movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:35

A lot. And uh, yeah, I'd say I'd say Interstellar.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

Perfect. I think Hayden thinks that the one oh one just fell to him at the one oh two spot. Wow, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:45

I just got I just got Michael Jordan at number two. We got LeBron at number two. Give me Heath Ledger in the dark night for supporting actor. Wow. I love Michael Cain, but wow. Well, yeah. He's excited. Dude. I thought he I dude he said supporting actor. I'm like, oh he got.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

I mean, dude, you you can really pick all of them are great, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:06

I mean, I just I swore when you said supporting actor, you were kind of gonna go for. Yeah. All right. I got two picks here. So I'm gonna go ahead and take my lead actress. Might seem early, might seem like recency biased, but I'm gonna go ahead and take Ann Hathaway from the Odyssey. Let me write that down. Yeah, I really liked her her role in this, and I think it's one of the uh best actresses he's had in any of his movies. Obviously, there's some other great ones, but one of my favorites from Odyssey. And then for lead actor, actually supporting. Wait, I'm supporting. I got time for that. Soundtracked, I'm gonna take Interstellar. Nice grab. That's a great pick. Yeah, I had to get that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:44

I feel like that's the 101 of that category, but yeah, I was in between that one or lead actor. I think I have to take Christian Bale as Batman for lead actor. Yeah. I think you just take the Dark Knight all the way through. I d I think I think I'd get it, I'll get at least one Instagram vote comment for Hayden with that lineup.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:07

And so wait, so am I leading? Or I can just pick anyone. Yeah, you get two picks.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:11

You get two picks.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:12

Okay. So supporting I have Michael Kane. I'd say leading actor. Man, give me uh you know, I like uh yeah, give me Tom Hardy. Give me Tom Hardy Bane.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:23

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:24

I mean Tom Hardy is an amazing actor. I I think he is fantastic. I think what he did with Bane was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:30

Yeah, I like it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:32

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely give me give me Tom Hardy. I think he's very versatile.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:37

And then you got another pick too, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:39

Score. Give me Oppenheimer score. Or did you do that already?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:43

No, no, no, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:44

Yeah, give me Oppenheimer score. That is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

Definitely up there. And Hayden whenever you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:49

All right. Kinda kinda keep I kinda got mine stolen there again. But now I don't need now I don't need to do that because I have all day. You guys took yours, so I'm I kinda got thrown off here a little bit. I'm trying to think, I'm I want to answer this in the best way possible. Cause yeah, Bat Batmobile is really cool, but if I could have the original Adam Bomb from Oppenheimer, I think that's that's a pretty valuable asset.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:19

I think I think you you beat all of us no matter what we pick next. Yeah, I'm gonna take the original Adam Bomb. Sick. All right, and then I got two here. So I think I'm gonna go ahead and take Robert Downey Jr. from Oppenheimer. Wow, great, great choice. He won Best Oscar for Best Supporting Actor in this year, so kind of hard not to take him here. And then for lead actor, it's kind of up in the air for me at this point. Obviously, you guys took two great ones, but I think I'm gonna take Matthew McConaughey from Interstellar.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:55

I love him.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

Yeah, so amazing. He's one of my favorites, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:58

Me too. I'll tidy it on that actually. Do you do you listen to audiobooks at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:03

I don't, but I would if it's his.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:06

It is, it is his. It's called Green Lights.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:09

Um and it's his like personal, like almost like memoir, but like it's it's also like has to do with like his like personal like philosophy on life and stuff. Does he narrate it? He does narrate it. And it has to do with like his yeah, dude. I I listened to it. It's incredible. I I can't recommend it enough, honestly. It like also it has to do with like his like life leading up to like how he got into like acting in Hollywood and his family, and like and then once he was there, like all the stuff that like he did and his like take on life with like like green lights, yellow lights, red lights, which is like how he equates like things happening in life and like what they mean. You should very much listen to it. It's narrated by him. It's incredible. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:48

I think I think I've uh told the story on the podcast before, but my dad's coworker, he actually was roommates with McConaughey at uh University of Texas. They're still friends. That's cool. They uh his my dad's coworker basically woke up, hung over his shit, and he had a role for Levi's jeans. He was supposed to go in and do a shoot with them.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:10

Shut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:11

And then and then he is like, I can't do it today. Just go, just go tell him you're me. You can keep the money. Like, I just don't want to not show up.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:18

I wanna I want to be talking the book.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:20

Yeah, I'm sure he does because he sent McConaughey there, and then he ended up getting into different kinds of acting after that.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:26

But yeah, I know. I he was he was going to school for I think he was like, I think he was trying to be a lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:32

Lawyer, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:33

Yeah. And uh yeah, he was yeah, dude. You you gotta listen to the book. It's it's really cool how he like kind of like found his passion and stuff like that, and like took a chance on on acting. Yeah, I definitely, definitely give give that a listen, man. It's it's it was it was great. I I'm not even a huge book guy, and like that was like I I I was listening to it, I like literally couldn't stop. Yeah, I probably finished I probably finished I think it was like eight hours long. I probably finished it in like two days. It was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:59

But I guess is it my turn or Hayden's turn. What do I have left? Just uh supporting actress? Supporting actress, soundtracked, and wild card.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:08

And wildcard, okay. So probably save the wild card. Actually, no, I'm not gonna save the wild card. Um so the wild card can be any of any of those. Anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:17

Yeah, or even if there's something other strange. Yeah, you could you could take whatever you wanted. Christopher Nolan's world is your ocean.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:25

Hmm. I'm trying to get a little outside of the box answer here. I will take I will take the totem from Inception, the spinning top. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:33

See, that was on my mind too. That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

It just keeps snaking between you two, right? Or do I get another one?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:40

No, he gets two.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:42

I have three left.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:44

Yeah, he gets two picks here, and then we'll have the last pick when it comes back.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:47

Okay. I'm gonna say, so my object. Give me Tars. Damn. Give me Tars.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:53

That's fire, bro. I that's way better than the stupid spinning time.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:59

No, no, I saw my wild card, I saw my right card. That's my object. Tars is my object for sure. Man, I mean, bro, that movie, like his Tars is so freaking cool. My god, I loved, I loved him, dude. The way he moves, dude, that scene when they're on the water planet and he like like splits into a bunch of rectangles and like rolls. Like, bro, that's that shit was so fr dude, so cool. I love his voice too. I believe who voices him. Um I think he's a really good voice actor. Is it is it Alan Tudick? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:31

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:32

It's okay if I look that up or yeah, yeah, go ahead. Okay, it's Bill Ur. I don't know. I remember uh oh, he also did the puppetry for him too. Yeah, like when he's when they're in the fourth dimension, when they're in the fourth dimension, like he's like talking with the I I don't know, his voice and just like his cadence and stuff. It's it's really good acting from a guy who's supposed to be a robot. Yeah. You know what I mean? Uh dude, I love Tars. I love the design of Tars. Such a cool, cool edition of that movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:56

Alright, and you get one more pick here.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:59

Let me do supporting actress. I should have picked mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:03

Damn it. Give me uh I thought he already did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:06

Hmm, give me give me Maggie Gyllenhall.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:09

Did it? I'm gonna I'm gonna make the recreate the Stephen A clip.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:14

Which I don't I don't believe she's the love interest. I don't believe it. Christian Bale, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:19

You're not fooling anybody. Yeah, what a crazy thing to say on national television. So funny, man. Times have changed, man. They were doing an ESPN segment, man. How does that even how does that even come up? It comes to me after that, right? Yep, your turn. I'll take uh I'll take Kitty, played by Emily Blanc. Yeah. And I remember.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:39

Yeah, that's a good one. All right, let's see here. I have my object in my wild card, and I've been debating if I should take two objects like Hayden did. My first one, I'm gonna take the endurance, the spaceship from Interstellar.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:51

I thought I was thinking outside the box. I think I went in the box.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:57

Well, you you went in the box and locked yourself inside. Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it just because it's we did we I gotta take it from the movie we did this week. So for my wild card, I'm gonna take the magic machine.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:11

Wow. Yeah, it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:13

So not only can I clone myself, I can fly to anywhere I want pretty cool. Back to Aiden for the soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:20

Can't do that if I bend time and go back and change my answers. And drop a nuke on my shop. What do I have left? I have one more, right? You have soundtrack. I have soundtrack, okay. Ooh. You guys took the best ones. Nice. I'll put one more I like. Yeah, off the top of my mind, I think I just don't like that movie though. I'll take Inception. Yeah, that's I mean, that's when he first started working with Han Zimmer, so I believe. Doesn't get much better than that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:50

Perfect meeting the goat. And then Sam, your last pick is your wild card, so you can do anything here. You can take Odysseus' bow if only if you think you can actually string it.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:01

He's so funny because I was thinking that too. I was just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:10

Oh man. That's like getting Thor's hammer. Something to look at.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:16

A nice paperweight.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:18

Yeah. Can't even put it put the paper under it. Terrible. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:23

These are good. These are good. I'm trying to think, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:26

Did anyone take the Batmobile? Is that like not cool enough? Oh yeah, we didn't take it. Or the Batsuit. That's like a Tom Brady pick, dude. Like last in the draft. Might might win you the whole the whole Super Bowl there. Or Batarang. Or anything Batman. Nah, Batarang. Or the suit. Ooh, the grapple gun. That's pretty fun. He has a spaceship too. He could take his spaceship. He did build one. But it got blown up.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:50

Give me. Dude, give me uh give me the Batcave. Alright. Give me the lair. I lost.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:00

I just straight up lost, dude. I was thinking about all the different Batman objects. I never thought to just take the Batcave, which has all the case. Yeah, I'll just take this house. I want it to be the whole house in the cave underneath. Yeah. The Wayne Manor.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:12

Yeah. I'll take the whole kitten caboodle, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:16

Please. Alright. If you guys want to read through your teams real quick, uh Sam, you can start if you want since you went first.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:22

Sure. I got supporting actor Michael Cain, leading Tom Hardy, Score, Oppenheimer, My Objects, Tars, Wildcard, Batcave, and then supporting actress is Maggie Gillinol.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:35

Cool, cool. I did not write mine down, so I'm going to try my best.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:38

I can read it if you want. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just let's just do that. Hayden for leading actor. He took Christian Bale from The Dark Knight. Actress, uh, Emily Blunt and Oppenheimer. Supporting, he took Heath Ledger, the Dark Knight object. He took the literal atom bomb soundtrack. He took Inception and then Wildcard, he took the totem from Inception, maybe the weakest pick of the draft. Dude, I can bend whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:06

Yeah, but the totem just tells you if you're dreaming or not. It's not like the actual machine that does the inception.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:14

No, but like you need one for the other. And it's cool. What if you had the actual thing? Okay. I can just bomb you. I got the atom bomb.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:22

Hayden really got the paperwork. Well, obviously the back cave is fortified for So I took uh for lead actor, I took Makanahe from Interstellar. Actress, I took Ann Hathaway from Odyssey. Supporting, I took RDJ as Oppenheimer. Object, I took the Endurance, the Spaceship from Interstellar. Soundtrack, I took Interstellar, and then Wildcard, I took the magic machine from the prestige.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:47

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:48

I should have just drafted all Batman. Should have taken Batmobile and Catwoman and called it a day. I would have that would have been better. Somebody would have liked it.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:57

Catwoman.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

Yeah, right? Like I just went like full Batman draft.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:00

Not even the actress employees Catwoman, just Catwoman.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:04

Not Ann Halfway. Or Hallie Bat. Well, I mean, I guess that's not Nolan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:09

They're all great.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:11

Alright, cool. Well, thanks for coming on, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:13

Dude, thanks for having me, man. This was so funny. Sorry. Sorry, it took like this is probably your longest episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:18

It might be. It might be. Once I chop it up, it might be. But hey, it was worth it. I mean, there's a lot to talk about with Nolan.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:24

Yeah, that's true. The subject is definitely pretty uh complex, dense. Yeah. But I mean, dude, I mean, in the future, I'd love to love to do it again, man. It was worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:34

For sure. We gotta have you guys back on.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

No, yeah. Justin, we know you uh we we know you did one right before this. So uh yeah, we'll see how you go, man. You're probably so tired of this shit. I need to call it. Thank you so much, dude. Thank you, bro. All right, bro. See you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:48

Yeah, we'll see you in the future. Later.