EP.48 Orson Welles

In this episode, host Justin and guest Drew break down the director's cinematic genius, focusing on the stylized noir of Touch of Evil and the groundbreaking narrative structure of Citizen Kane. They explore his masterful use of deep-focus photography, low-angle shots, and ambitious, uninterrupted tracking shots, before following up with an engaging cinematography draft to pick their favorite visual elements of all time. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey, hey, welcome back to New Beast to Movies. I'm Justin, and this week I have a special guest on. Longtime friend of mine. Went to high school together, ran cross-country together. Uh, my good friend Drew.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me, man. Excited to be here. Just great movies that we watched. Excited to get to it.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Yeah, yeah. Awesome, Drew. So uh we always like to start out with our new guest. Kind of tell me about some of your favorite movies, your favorite genres, and give me some examples of what you like watching. Definitely, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I mean, I watch a lot of movies. I watch a lot of TV and a lot of movies, spend a lot of time in front of the screen. So kind of all over the place. But, you know, it growing up, definitely Marvel movies, action movies, big on all of those, big on anything, superhero. Love war movies, love old-time war movies. And then I started getting into a little bit more film stuff, of course, like everyone else. Started watching Whiplash and then La La Land is one of my specific favorite movies. Honestly, anything by Damian Chiselle is just fantastic. 1917 war movies, fantastic, one of my favorites. But I do love like just all the all the old-timey classic movies that I grew up with, watching as a kid. A lot of the Pixar movies, Cars, Bugs Life. It's a particular favorite of mine. Yeah. Among that list, Toy Stories. But but yeah, man, uh, I do watch a lot of movies and excited to watch them more.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, that's awesome. Actually, now that you're like talking about Bugs Life, I've read like a really crazy story about Pixar and Bugs Life this week. So basically what had happened was Toy Story came out, but they weren't expecting it to be such a big hit. And then uh they were working on Bugs Life, but the studio was putting a lot of pressure on them and Disney to come out with the Toy Story 2. At the time of them making it, it was supposed to be like a direct to DVD sequel, like no theater action, just kind of throw something out there to keep the kids entertained. And what ended up happening was they took their A-Team off of Bugs Life and put it on Toy Story 2 and delayed a Bugs Life. Kind of crazy just to hear that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

No, dude, it was it it was crazy for that Pixar team back then. Yeah. I did watch a documentary just about like the making of those early movies. YouTube short, YouTube video. And it it the pressure that they were under was was pretty intense. But also like they were they're breaking ground in 3D animation.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

At first with Toy Story, of course, but I think a bug's life too is even crazier because you have completely like humans, humans itself are kind of hard, but then you got these bugs over here that just move in so many different ways. The way they handled it was really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, yeah. And that was a big talking point in the the video I watched was basically Disney was gonna if they didn't put out Toy Story 2, they were just gonna take it and make their own 2D animation version. And I was like, oh yeah, everybody can't just do what Pixar did at the time because it was that like groundbreaking, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Dude, they're crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah. So yeah, kind of getting into this week, uh, a tough task I I definitely assigned to Drew was watching Orson Wells movies with me, which is definitely not for the standard movie watcher, uh, just considering how old these movies are. But Orson Wells, he earned five total Oscar nominations throughout his career. He won for writing of Citizen Kane, which is uh something kind of interesting. He wrote and directed and starred in a lot of his movies, while also he ended up receiving an honorary academy award, which is a huge feat in itself later in his career. And he kind of uh revolutionized the cinema just by the the cinematography. We'll get into that a lot later, but just kind of his nonlinear storytelling, his uh film techniques were kind of groundbreaking. Um yeah, what did you think of Orson Wells in general? Without getting into the movies, definitely kind of an interesting dive this week.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, I mean, talk about the the textbook, the just the guy who who is the textbook. I mean, what he did with some of the his framing techniques and the way he portrays um characters and conversations is is just beautiful. And it it really it pulls you into the story as the viewer, and I mean it really like it put layers on every single conversation. So I'm just super excited. I was so pumped to get Orson Wells and especially to get these two movies. I mean, what a what an entry for me, you know, really threw me into the fire here, man. No joke.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, definitely did. It was a uh a tough one. I uh with Tyler being out, I was texting around a lot of people and I was like, if anybody could take this on, I think Drew could take this on and fully dive into it. So I was excited. Wow, dude. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I I had a blast, and I mean, honestly, I think I think both of these movies are worth quite a few more rewatches. Yeah. Just so I could like just really get into it some more. Because there's there's so much to to to dig into. But Orson Wells being 25 years old doing this is mind-boggling. I mean, insane, and at the same time, just absolutely revolutionizing filmmaking and what it is for us. So, yeah, two great movies, two great ones that we're gonna dive into.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah. So before we kind of do that, we also always like to talk about uh what we've been watching this week. I'll start because you brought up Damien Chiselle. I actually watched Babylon for the first time this week. I don't know how to feel I don't know how to feel about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

No way. Really?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I I don't know. It felt like a fever dream. It just felt like uh a mess. Like in in in a good way, I guess. It was so much going on all the time. Um Margot Robbie and Brad Pitt obviously starring, they were pretty great in it. I thought their roles were really well written, but it definitely felt like it was a lot in one movie. Um it felt like this movie could have cut an hour and it still would have made sense. That I hate I don't like when movies are over two hours and 30 minutes. It really bothers me. Maybe it's just our short attention spans as Gen Z. I don't know. But it's uh yeah, that was kind of killing me a little bit. But tell me what you thought about it because I really like Damien Chazelle as a director too.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Dude, I mean that sounds like tit to tat as uh the the perfect like first-time reaction. That's exactly how it was. Because I remember going out to watch that in theaters for the first time, and pretty sure I went with with Sam Derby and Hayden Tobin, actually. And man, we walked out of there just eyes wide open, minds blown, kind of tired because it was really long. But like, what the fuck? What like what a roller coaster of a movie. Yeah. I just just a roller coaster of emotions. And something I think that is really fun is I when I was watching Touch of Evil, and I was I'm I know we're not allowed to touch in, you know what? I'll save that one. I'll save that one. Okay, but um there's you know, it's a beautiful tribute to Hollywood, without a doubt. And I do think that after my first watch, I was like, I don't know how to feel about that. I've probably seen it like three or four times since then. It is it is one of my favorite movies. It it's very like the rewatch value is fantastic there because I feel like you already kind of have an idea where the story's going and you could pay attention more to you know the way that the conversations are framed and and the certain shots that they did for things, and then also just the fantastic acting from from everyone in that movie. Yeah. Um I forget the the lead's name of the uh Margot Robbie's the per the guy that she ends up married.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Hispanic guy.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yeah, but I mean I think that he he he's one of my favorite actors now. I want to watch a lot more of stuff. I want to watch a lot more with him.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So that's the thickest part because it wasn't received well, and I haven't seen him in anything since. So I'm like, oh, is he gonna get thrown out of Hollywood because of this too? Like Chiselle has talked about like he's like, I don't know if I'll ever get a movie again because of how bad and poorly received this is.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Blows my mind. I know it's my mind. Yeah. But also like when your first like the first 40 seconds of the or what like four minutes of the film, I mean, you're you're getting elephant dump, fucking poop, pumped, like pooped right on your face. You know, I I can understand why there might be some initial shock for people when they also see that with a like a three-hour timestamp on it. We got like three hours, you said it earlier, everything over two hours and 30 minutes can be tough. You don't see a lot of success. I mean, you look at Lord of the Rings, that's one of the few movies that has kind of made that happen consistently as well. But I think that Babylon might end up being one of those movies that, you know, similar to Citizen Kane, that wasn't received well at the box office, was kind of a flop. But, you know, over time it it sh more and more is gonna show its value. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I I agree, especially telling such an in-depth story about Hollywood, definitely dramatized a lot of biblical references in the movie itself, too. But yeah, I agree. I think over time this is gonna get kind of looked back upon and being like, oh, okay, I don't know why we didn't like this movie so much. How'd you feel about the ending though? That was uh like a seizure. Yeah, it was a lot going on. I mean, obviously that was the paying homage to Hollywood, right? Like there was literally a flash-through scene. It was fast. I remember seeing Terminator, Avatar, 2001 The Space Odyssey, obviously paying homage to all the different eras of Hollywood and you know what it became over time as this movie takes place in like the 1920s. But uh it was cool. It was cool. I wonder how he got all the rights to that, because that must have been a nightmare. Dude, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, man. Well, you know, you might you might have just hit my wild card on the head right there. I can't lie, I'm gonna have to move to option two.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

So what you what what have you been watching lately? What what have you been diving into? It could be a TV show too, if you'd like. Good.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I hope it is, man, because it it has been a TV show. We've been binging through Better Call Saul. Okay. I don't know if you've seen that yet, but I haven't. Oh, nope. Wow. All right, so you should watch it for the for the the the man, you have to watch it. Yeah, I know. Being a movie lover, yeah. The some of the shots in Better Call Saul and uh, you know, it and Breaking Bad are just fantastic. But yeah, me and my girlfriend, we've been watching through Better Call Saul. It's her first time, probably my third. Huge fan. Love Jimmy, love Jimmy McGill, love Saul. It's gonna I'm excited for you to watch that one, man. You're gonna enjoy that.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I've been I've had that high on my list for a long time. And I know it's not even that long, but I don't know what's like stopping me. I just I guess sitting down and turning it on is the only thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

And they're our episodes, yeah, and it's like ten a season, so it's definitely a commitment. And what's kind of cool is like Breaking Bad was you know, the it was a hit phenomenon when it when it was when it came out, when it eventually gained popularity after like season two, season three. Um, but Better Call Saul is just a complete spin-off from that show, arguably the better show at this point. Wow. Um, with it so it's both of them are fantastically shot. The cinematography is top-notch, acting is great, and I mean, definitely we definitely been should be on your list. But yeah, that's what I've been watching. That and like Pirates of the Caribbean this past week because I was at the beach. Okay. You've got to have a little pirate movie in.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah. All right. Yeah, so we'll try and play this game that me and Mason played last week. So let me uh share it on the screen here. Basically, it's like Wordle. We will just basically try to guess a movie. So it should give us a couple categories. Can you see my screen okay?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Okay, cool. So since it'll be the first guess and you're the guest, just give me a movie that you want to start with. Any any movie? Any movie ever. It's just a huge question, man. We could do Pirates of the Caribbean. We can do Babylon.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Let's start out with uh deep pool. Once upon a time. No, I'm thinking about it. In Hollywood? Yeah, once upon a time in Hollywood. We'll we'll go with that one. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

That's a good that's a good start. There's a lot of actors in that.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Okay. It gave us uh the genre is comedy. So it is wrong, but we do have that it was before 2019. Comedy before 2019. All right, give me um trying to think here. 40-year-old Virgin. That's good. Also, if we get any of the actors, it should pop up here.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Main actors 44. I'm guessing that's our lead.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Also before 2005, it's saying. Oh. Jump down into the 90s, go airplane. Airplane's good. Oh, the 80s. 80s. There we go. We're dropping real. It's in between the two. Um, we can go like when did Zoolander come out? Was that after 2005? I think that was like 2002.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

That was right around there.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

That was right around there. Let's do that. Okay, before 2001. Dude, we're getting stuck. All right, hold on, hold on. Um, yeah, we gotta shoot for like 1990 here. That would really help us.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

We got uh Snakes on a plane.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah, when did that come out? Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

That's 2006, 2006. What are we what am I talking about? What do you got?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Um what's the one with Ice Cube and Chris Tucker? Friday? Yeah, Friday. That had to be in the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, what are we yeah, we need a that's 95.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

We can take it. Wow. In the game. So we're right there in the middle. We haven't crossed anybody off the actor list. I feel like this is gonna be like a weird movie. I mean, we should have hit something by now. Who was big in the nineties?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Comedy actor in the nineties. I mean, you got the all the SNL guys coming up, but they were still on SNL, so who was who was ahead of them?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

What about Eddie Murphy?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, dude. I feel like I'm Eddie Murphy, um uh three amigos right there. It's 1986.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Too late. I have never seen that.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

No, no, no, it's too late. That's um what's his name?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I'm trying to think. Now I'm stuck on Eddie Murphy.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Caddyshack? When is that? It's eighties or two.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

See, I like all those.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

We're looking like ninety-eight, ninety-nine.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

What the hell came out then?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

That's such a good question, bro. We weren't even born.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I know. It's right it's right before us. Um Lord of the Rings was coming out, starting to come out. Pulling up chat GPT now. Dude, I can't this is crazy. And everybody in this movie is kind of old. I don't know why we're blanking so hard. I bet we we probably would know it too. We've probably seen it. Are we giving up? Because I'm stuck. I feel like we can come up with another movie. But yeah, I'm just about ready to give up. Um, hold on here, hold on. I think funny movies. Scary movies. That was probably two it was probably two thousands. Yeah. Nothing. 95. It's 96.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

That's the year, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Okay. It's none of them happy Madison guys. Yeah. Is Ulanda. Or it's still it could be, it could be. Chris Tucker, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Dude, this is crazy. We we haven't got a single actor. These are such different movies. I dude, I'm giving up. I can't. Yeah. Give up, give up. This is bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

The what? No chance. What's wrong with us though?

unknown 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

We didn't do anything with Robin Williams. We're like, oh, who's the who's a funny actor in the 90s? It was him. Of course. Yeah, we gotta scrap all this, dude. Alright, dude. Mike cut that one from the show. That was embarrassing. Dude, it's alright. We're newbies. We're just newbies to movies. Oh god, he said the thing. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. I'll be excited to talk about Skittison Kane. All right, let's get into Touch of Evil.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Let's get into it. We gotta show we know a little ball here. So, first diving into the plot of Touch of Evil, I gave it an eight. Uh it follows a Mexican narcotics agent, uh, Mike Vargas, whose honeymoon was disrupted by a car bombing. As Vargas investigates, he kind of uncovers the corruption and racism in with the uh American police captain played by Orson Wells. Uh, his name was Hank Quinlan, and uh he kind of plants evidence to frame suspects, and it it's uh kind of assumed that he does that uh through his whole career. But yeah, I really like the plot of this movie. Definitely like a noir-style film. It was really interesting, it kept me engaged the whole time, and I think the character development was done pretty well too.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, I I mean really good movie. The plot, uh I I like that you said assume, because uh the one of the first things I picked up on from the Americans, from Orson Wells and Quinlan, the character he's playing, was was the assumptions that he was making just off the bat. I mean, the assumptions about the dynamite, about Mike's wife, you know, not be about Mike's wife supposed to not be white because he's Mexican. But I I mean, the this whole thing was was really good. There was so much setup and payoff, it felt like it was just from the opening shot with the explosion in the beginning, what with the box reveal when they show you the the box where the dynamite was held, um, and then it goes for like five minutes right there before anything, before it's revealed, like, oh wait, he planted the dynamite inside this shoebox. But overall, just it it felt like the classic noir. It felt like the textbook for noir movie, just bad axe, badass good versus evil. With I mean, Vargas, man, he was awesome. He was he was playing such a such a fun bad, he was just playing a badass the whole time. But yeah, I I really enjoyed this movie. Excited about this one.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, kind of getting into that with the characters. Um, I liked a lot of the main cast, but the the the side characters felt a little shallow to me. Um, I mean, that's gonna happen, especially in such an older film like this. Uh specifically, I like Hank Quinlan and Mike Vargas, those are obviously set up to be the protagonist and the antagonist. The Susan, the wife, was uh pretty interesting as well, too. Um a little uh a little uh I don't know how you say it. I guess she was just kind of a little corny at some points. Every every scream was like such a 1950s shriek in the movies. Yeah. But I mean, you're gonna get that with kind of the age of this film, but other than that, I think the the characters were pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah, man. I Quinlan uh Wells, I mean he was hilarious at first. Like his character introduction was it just cracked me up. He had at the beginning when he was like in his element before he finally got before he eventually was getting corrupted throughout the movie. Like he was he was a badass as well. He came in, he that initial stare down to everyone was was tough. What's the name? But I thought it I thought his character was probably my favorite, just as you watch the slow decline of like his human spirit, and as he gets caught for what he's done, and then eventually, you know, he gets he gets caught and then he starts going to drinking, gets into some problems, gets into some bribery, and then eventually, you know, leads to the one thing that you know he apparently hates the most because it happened to his wife, which murdering. In fact, strangling, too. Which I decided to get into that because I thought that was pretty crazy. But Vargas, badass. Um, I got it written down right here. 3730, Mike, sunglasses inside. Badass. I there is there's one scene where he's like walking across the street, puts on his sunglasses, he walks like four steps, gets inside the building, just like badass, takes them off, dude. I kind of like timestamp because I I had to go back and I love that that bit so much. But just quickly, the the side characters, the the Grandes, the you know, sort of funny, racist, the main guy, kind of bad at the same time. But the uh the cousins, the little nephews, I hated those suckers, man. They were pissing me off, dude. That one little guy who's jumping, bouncing up and down all the time and wanted to stalk him in the face, man. I couldn't tell if it was bad acting or if I just hated them. I actually it was it wasn't the best acting, it was pretty bad. But uh, I mean, there was there was some crazy spike, some crazy I I they kind of I didn't like them at first. They're pissing me off, and then that whole subversion where you think that his wife is is getting raped and drugged in the room. I mean, my mouth like dropped. Yeah, you know, I was like, holy f holy shit. Like this movie felt like it had some good comedic bits of big relief in the beginning, and then like bam, all right, shit's getting a little more serious.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Which is interesting because for this time, that was not something you would like put in a movie like that either. This is dark for its time. Dude, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I mean, like and you're wondering the whole time, you know, they're leading up to it. They're like the the ladies turn off the the music, she's like, you know, they're coming for you, like tapping through the window or tapping through the wall, and you see them converging around here, and you think like, What like this is what's gonna happen, but there's no way they're gonna do that. And uh, it's almost like subverting your expectations by doing the expected. So it's it was pretty cool, just because everyone just no one expected that to actually be put on a screen. Yeah. So I bet at the time, too, I mean, that may be a part of why it wasn't so well received in the theaters.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, yeah. Getting into the cinematography, uh, obviously something Orson Wells is so well known for. Um, I mean, you can just start off in the opening scene, that tracking shot with the car, knowing that we know what's in the car, but everybody around has no idea that was so well done. Really expressionistic lighting. I thought the lighting was really well done in this movie, uh, obviously, considering it's in black and white, but I think the the the framing of everybody too in in their scenes was really well done. Done, especially um with the wife Susan, and kind of seeing the people following her while uh early in the movie while uh yeah, I can't think of his name, Mike was there, but not seeing them as well. But we can see them in the background. Obviously, cool film trick that's been used for generations now. Just kind of the overall cinematography was really good. And I think the it made for like a really unsettling kind of film.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah, dude, totally agree. I mean, Orson Wells, he commands the camera. Yeah. Like he what you see is is everything is intended, and it's it's really fun to watch because it it feels like you just have to pay attention to all parts of the movie, you know, how he keeps the entire at like such a wide screen in focus all the time. And you're you have to like you said, you have to pay attention to the background characters, where in some other movies it's like big Hollywood m movies nowadays, background actors are throwaways. Yeah, you know, but at this point, anyone could be integral to the plot of the story. So it I think that was awesome. Like uh yeah, holy shit. Opening shot. I mean, just what a great long take. It just it throws you into the movie, it it tells you the story, and it helps you understand like what's going on and who everyone is. I really enjoyed the conversations. I think that he makes conversations so entertaining, like you said, with the way he frames it. The the moving car conversation when they're ripping through the streets was particularly awesome, and then it it flips to like a wide pan up as the car is going away. I mean, uh it's just it's a huge dolly. That's a huge that's a huge shot for the time. Now, granted, this was like like this was 1958, so the it's already been some time and yeah, things are developing. But I I mean his cinematography, I got it down as yeah, nine out of ten. I was impressed. Yeah, really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Kind of getting into what you're talking about with the dialogue. I gave it a nine. I think I was coming into this week, kind of expecting a really corny old school style dialogue, and I got any everything but that. I mean, sure, there was the scenes that had it, and it was like, okay, this is this is that, but definitely not scared to uh tell it how it is. I mean, especially writing, you gotta think he's writing a racist, corrupt cop for himself. I mean, the nuts on this guy. If that's portrayed badly, you're out of Hollywood. Like nobody likes you anymore. But it's so well written, and like even for some reason, you can kind of like understand what Orson Wells' character is going through. Hank, you're like not that what he's doing is right, but you uh somehow are connecting with him as being like a a down on his luck man who's just out of it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Even when, even when like you know, you know, at after a certain point in the movie, like, hey, like this is like he is planting this stuff, like he planted this dynamite. I still wanted to root for him a little bit, you know, because you know he's supposed to be he's supposed to be one of the good guys there. But some of the dialogue, I also I also have it as a nine. I enjoyed some of the like classic badass kind of lines coming out of Quinlan and coming out of Vargas. Like Vargas is like, I don't I won't give you a chance to test your authority on this matter talking to one of the dudes. I thought that was that was hard, but some of the comedic relief was was really what made it for me. I was I was laughing. Like watch your blood pressure. You lost your rug when when the Grande's guy loses his head. Like it's just it's it's classic, like slapstick, throw it in there real quick, but it's still like thought out, and yeah. I mean, but Quinlan's introduction hops out of the car and he's like, Did they toss it or plant it? Who? Whoever did it, jackass. I mean, he comes in just with an elite character introduction. Yeah. So like you kind of know like who you're gonna get with this guy. Yeah. Um, and that's what we see throughout the whole movie.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, just one or two lines can really stick a character trope right onto the character, and that was all you needed to know exactly. Like, this guy's a no bullshit kind of guy. My favorite line was uh from Tanya, the uh I don't know if she was like uh a gypsy or some kind of therapist or but at the end, obviously, once spoiler alert, you've had sixty years, but when Hank Quinlan's kind of on his deathbed, she she said uh to the to the other officer, she said he was some kind of man. I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Um, matter what you say about people.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah. Just because, you know, even though he was a terrible person, did a lot of terrible things, for some reason we still connected with him as a character as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, he was some kind of man. I really liked that. I mean, that was that was the closing line too. That was uh I really enjoyed that one as well. It's yeah, it it was it was hard because you you wanted to root for him, and then at a after a certain point, I it was like like man, this guy, yeah, he's turned, you know, he is he is fully gone into his vices. We saw that he was drinking, yeah. Exactly, exactly. That was exactly how it was portrayed. And right at these, what is I don't drink? And then that second time he said it, he had already taken half the shot. Yeah, you know, so it's like he's already going down the well, and from there it was just a huge spiral. But shoot, did we already get on the cinematography? No, yeah, man. That was that was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah. Getting into the set design, I thought it was really interesting here. They shot a lot of the actual locations in Venice, California, made it really look like a very CD US Mexico border town. And um, the art directors were Robert Clatworthy and Alexander Goldson, and they kind of crafted really distorted environments. I felt when they were running around the city, I was kind of lost with them, but I think that was the point, right? They didn't know what was going on, they didn't know it was around every turn, and I think that was pretty well done. So I gave it a seven for set design.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, I like that. I definitely agree with what you're saying about running around the city. Yeah. It was it was clearly, you know, it was intentionally confusing, but that just added to, you know, all the the the pressure and the build-up that we were feeling to that point and just the you know, trying to get to the eventual peak and then the relief and the payoff after. But yeah, I thought, for one thing, much better explosive budget. I mean, we got the car flowing up at the beginning, got some dynamite going off. Yeah. I was appreciated that, but they still gave it like it still had like that classic, yeah, you can't really avoid that with these classic Hollywood movies because that's what it is, but just had the classic Hollywood feel with some of the sets. I gave it an eight out of ten. Definitely good.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah. Getting into acting, I gave it an eight. Uh I thought it was really well done by Orson Wells here. Uh very grotesque performance, but again, we kind of talked about how we somehow kind of associated with him um as a character, which was really interesting. And then, you know, obviously him writing that character for himself crazy. And then I think the Vargas was a really good character too. The acting was done really well, as as well as Janet Lee. I think she did pretty good as Susan, just kind of trapped in the in a uh web of corruption. It was interesting to see. Yeah, I mean, talk about trapped.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

That that that poor woman. Although I I don't know. I feel like Vargas should have sent her sent her way back home. Yeah just from the get-go. Unfortunate that she got sent to the one resort that was also owned by the Grandis. You know, that's just bad luck right there. But I I didn't I didn't really dislike her acting too much. I thought she was pretty good. Yeah. You know, it I I I enjoyed her. I thought I thought it was it was a nice, you know, damsel in distress, good trope, and very fun. But Quinlan, just top-notch. Orson, he was, he was, he was hilarious. I know we talked about it before, like the Grandes and the Mexican gangsters, they were they were all right. Not not probably the the weakest acting of the bunch.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Uh, but I think Orson and and Vargas were, I mean, top notch. The that fight scene when Vargas is just raging and just un just uncontrollably, you know, like where is my wife? Like my wife. He's screaming at these kids. He's he's picking them up, smashing them into the jukebox, then he he like walks this one guy down when he runs away and he picks him up with one hand like he's the Hulk. Yeah, it's like walking this kid back. I just thought I thought that was that was awesome. And I'm like, this is a movie from 1958. This is, you know, this is so much fun, but really, really enjoyed the acting. The Grandis took some out of it, yeah. For sure. I gave it an eight at the end of the day. I wanted to give it a nine, but there was you know, there was some there were some weak moments from the Grandis for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

For sure. Yeah. Directing, I gave it a nine. Obviously, Wells had a really bold direction coming into this. Like we talked about, it's a very dark story to tell, especially at this time. I we obviously can talk about it. Uh Wells is just so iconic for introducing all these different kinds of uh film techniques and styles. Obviously, we talked about the very long tracking shots in the beginning. That was pretty amazing. I thought the this kind of Mexican standoff at the end was done really well. I I know it wasn't a typical one, but obviously, you know, you have Vargas following him with the recorder, the other guy talking to Quinlan, trying to get him to confess. That whole thing was really interesting. And I thought it was shot really well too, especially when he'd be like, hey, what was that sound? And the camera shoots over really fast. I think it was done really well for its time. Definitely not an easy feat to do at the time. Dude, yeah, that shot, that shot was fun.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah. I specifically love that huge radio that Vargas was walking around with, like the antenna that's like eight feet long, and he's like underneath the bridge. It's just loud as hell. And and and of, but that's what's great about Quinlan is that you know, you you know he's drunk, but they say like the best drunk actors, you're supposed to pr pretend like you're not drunk, you know, like you're drunk trying not to be. I don't feel like he was doing that, but I he is it was such a fun scene. The what I just really loved was how the movement of the characters and the story was directed clearly by the camera, and the camera felt like just a part of it. There was one scene where like you have the camera face in the backseat of car with Vargas in the front, someone else in the front, someone to your left, and and they're having a conversation, looking out, showing you something, and then it cuts to outside the car, looking back in, and you're in the position of where Quinlan was. And it was just done. It was just done so beautifully, it was done seamlessly, done so well, and also something that Orson is just a king of is you know transitioning between these scenes and and being able to, you know, move one actor into a scene at the end of one scene to begin the next one. Your eyes start to drift or and you start to see them talking and coming out, and then and and then your the focus shifts and then the camera shifts with you. So just really great storytelling. It keeps the viewer engaged, kept me engaged. I felt like a cat looking at a laser. It was just an awesome movie. But nine out of ten for directing.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah, no doubt. Getting into the soundtrack, I gave it a seven. I thought it was pretty well done. Um Henry Mancini, I read a little bit about this rather than choosing to do like a traditional orc orchestral uh score, definitely heavily relied on at this time of filmmaking. He wanted to kind of craft a jazz, Latin, rock, blues mix, especially being on a border town, which is definitely going above and beyond, right? We want to see that when making music and using music to kind of portray plot points, and I think it was pretty well done.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, yeah. I 100% agree. You know, I was I was a little this is probably the the one care the one category I was like not so sure about just knowing these movies because I'm not the biggest fan of the the classic old school music, trumpets blaring, very fast paced, moving back and forth. But I mean he did such a such a beautiful job, especially like you said, mixing in the jazz elements. I think you really see that towards the end when they jump into the nightclub. I mean, it pans to like this another fat awesome cut and great editing with like this fast pan, or this fast cut, excuse me, to the singer of his face starting off the song. Thought the theme was good. I thought I was expecting to not like it as much as I did, gave it an eight at the end of the day. I thought it was I thought it was strong and it it just complemented the movie so well.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah. And then getting into themes of the movie, I gave it an eight. I thought it was really well done, especially for its time. Just diving into the overall moral decay of humanity and how it kind of and corruption kind of carries you that way. But at its core, it you know, questions whether the law should be upheld by strict moral codes or questionable methods of those people who are in power, like uh like uh Quinlan, which again, very deep for its time. I don't think a lot of movies were really uh throwing in, you know, really thinkable themes uh like this. So yeah, definitely really great and well done, well executed.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah, yeah. I mean, good versus evil. There was there was so much going on throughout the whole the the beginning of the movie felt at first like a classic buddy cop, you know, movie trope. Yeah. Um with like a great dwarf aesthetic to it, and then it it shifts into like betrayal from someone who's supposed to be trustworthy, and then and then we start talking that we throughout the time we would realize we're talking about this decay of man while at the same time like there's a righteous good on the other side fighting it. Beautiful theme. Gave it an eight out of ten as well. Um, what else I have here? Yeah, Quinlan fell apart when he was confronted by like an equally as powerful force, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. Yeah. Like I feel I've just been saying like good and evil, but that's just really the the end vibe I was getting from them. Even though like Vargas had one moment of rage and it was still justified. Yeah. Um and he still at that time didn't do anything rash. But after finally being con like after like Quinn runs into Vargas for the first time, like it was set up at the beginning, like they've heard about each other, they're both huge characters. That's when his spiraling begins and and just his inevitable downfall. And it's it's just portrayed so well throughout the different shots throughout the movie, representations, like we said, from the drinking. Yeah. But just a great, great movie.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, and what foresight to use something, some imagery like alcoholism as like I mean, at the time, obviously, everybody drank all the time. It was just kind of what happened. And so to use that and portray it in such a negative way, right? With his character's downfall, it's yeah, such good foresight. Like that holds up so well today, where I feel like back in the day that wasn't like a huge thing to hook onto a character as being a negative trope, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Yeah, I dude, 100%. And they also did that uh a bit, they for they foreshadowed it with um like his sex and the brothel that he was going to. I guess she was a psychic. Yeah. But I guess he would just go there a bunch. You know, it was implied. Yeah. What was going on there. Um but something I wrote down that I just wanted to touch on is that they they like gave us a Chekhov's gun with Quinlan's wife's murder when they just like excuse me, they gave us that gun at the beginning when they're they're giving us this foreshadowing of like uh this is how she was killed, and I and he hates stranglers. And then it cuts to his wife is on the bed, passed out, supposedly drugged and rape, and he's standing over. And you're thinking in your head, like, he's gonna strangle her. Like this is this is gonna be his this is gonna be like his final big thing. Ends up being kind of worse, but uh pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Pretty crazy, yeah, for sure. Getting into the editing, uh I gave it a seven. Um, it kind of some backstory on this. I don't know if you read about it. So what happened was why this movie was so poorly received when it first came out uh was Universal cut it up without Wells' permission, basically, removing a lot of the cross cutting and adding a lot of exposition in. And then finally in 1998, you know, that later late late down the line, um the an editor named Walter Murick used Wells' detailed 58-page memo he wrote to Universal when they were editing it, and they pretty much ignored it at the time. But he used that memo to re-edit the film how he thought Wells intentionally meant for it to be edited and restored it to its intended, you know, structure. So we the version that we watched, the version that you'll see out now, was the one that they re-edited to fix and make how Wells uh originally intended. So definitely would be interesting to go back and see if you could find a version of it that was, you know, cut up the original one, and see how different it could have been, because that's that's that that could make a huge difference. I think editing is a huge part of how a movie is framed and shaped for the audience. So that could be, you know, why this movie wasn't really well intentionally received at the beginning, but now is regarded as a really great movie.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Yeah, wow, I had no idea about that. Yeah. That's that's crazy. I mean the editing was one of was actually one of my one of my favorite parts of the movie. Um it felt just all the cuts felt smooth and consistent. There were some there were some fun there were some fun shots with the actors uh framing the conversations, just making you feel more involved. The the editing throughout the fights, I think, was done well, and in my opinion, like I've seen it in so many movies since then that it feels like wow, this is clearly the blueprint of like where this started from.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Just for like those short, quick fights there. So I ended up giving that an eight out of ten. Really enjoyed that one. Yeah. I thought the editing was strong.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

So overall for Touch of Evil, I gave it a 7.8 out of 10 or 78. Might seem low, but I really enjoyed this movie. I think it's obviously really well done for its time. I think Orson Wells is pretty amazing. But yeah, what'd you give it? 8.3. There you go. Yeah, that's a good score.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

I mean, it's it's deserving.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

I I I thought it was I thought it was like a classic, uh, the classic detective movie. So far that I've seen at least. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot more I need to watch.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah. And then we'll get right into Citizen Kane. Obviously, probably his most famous movie, one of the most famous movies of all time, one of the most talked about for sure. Um, I was really excited coming into this just to see what all the hype's about. I hear people reference this movie all the time. But getting into the plot, I gave an eight. Citizen Kane follows the life of a wealthy uh publishing tycoon named Charles Foster Kane. After his death, death, uh the some news reporters uh kind of are following and trying to track down the meaning of the word he says, his final word. Uh he says rosebud. So they're they're following it around, investigating it, asking friends, family, acquaintances kind of what rosebud meant to him. And uh they're kind of as they're doing this, we're getting flashbacks through the life of Charles Foster Kane. And they finally never really investigate and understand what the word means. Obviously, at the ending, we realized it was the the name on the sled that he had when he was a a child. We'll kind of get into what I guess I would ask you what what you kind of think of the the meaning of the ending of this movie. But yeah, really interesting plot. I thought it was really well done. What do you think of Rosebud? What do you think the meaning of it is?

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Man, I think Rosebud is like him thinking to the only time in his life where money wasn't everything. You know, where things are like it it goes back to our initial setup shot when we have the banker, the mom, and the paw, and then you have the kid clearly outside of the room, out out playing, enjoying, having fun. Even though it was, you know, implied that that wasn't like the best place. I think that and if that's what it was when you look at Rose Baud, that's his childhood sled. He's thinking back to just that pure happiness and that joy that he's been searching for this entire movie, trying to fill with with women, with money, with power, and that he never can, that he was never able to. And that's why he kept on searching for all this, because he was always unhappy and he was never to get never able to get back to just that true happiness that he once had. Yeah. But uh, I mean, just what a great plot. He wanted to be the champion of the working class at the beginning. It's it's Orson, you know, it's kind of another one, just like Touch of Evil, where we touch on the the corruption of a man by by power and and and you know, also him, especially because of money. But uh like when he first started out, he he wanted to be the champion of the working class, even though he really had no connection to them at all. Like it's kind of like this heroic white knight that you know doesn't actually put in the work, doesn't really understand where they are. And that's why I feel like you know, he never he never got their approval in the end, because he it was a facade and he couldn't be the person he was trying to be. Yeah. And they just the whole plot, the the whole movie did a great job of of portraying his his slow breakdown and how throughout his life he was influenced by power mongers and money and it how it changed him fundamentally as a person. It got him farther away from his rosebud and the happiness he was trying to find.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yeah, I think it was obviously just a homage to that turning point in his life, right? Like that was the last point in his life where he had love, he had happiness, and you know, he he that was him dying, thinking back to hey, maybe this is when the last time I had these things. So very interesting. Getting into the characters, I gave it an eight as well. I think Charles Foster came, obviously probably one of the best written characters in this uh in this movie, but it was really interesting to dive into the different characters as we're kind of watching it through Charles Foster's lens, but also as we're learn meeting all these new characters. We're learning about them through his life, but also after his death as well, kind of in the interviews, which again, Orson Wells just a master class in framing it and editing of movies. Really interesting to see a movie done like this, especially for its time.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Uh I mean he Orson Wells is just such an amazing actor to portray his character like throughout the different seasons of his life. I think he does a really good job with that as well. And I thought it was it was really fun to be kind of like thrown into this the beginning part of the movie where you are watching like the obituary or whatever they're trying to put out just kind of like yeah this isn't very good. Like this isn't bad. And then boom it it cuts to like all of the guys that we're working with here and the guy the guy kind of saying what the audience is thinking like we gotta do more on this we gotta get on it we gotta go out. I really enjoyed shoot what was the name Lehman? Lehman I mean Bernstein was pretty he was pretty funny character. I enjoyed him his wife not my favorite which one yeah right uh the the second one the second one first but that dude I mean I don't know it was it was a pretty crazy movie. Lots of characters a lot going on all together yeah but yeah Orson Wells just kills it.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yeah what an what an actor yeah cinematography uh I gave it an absolute 10 I think this was so well done in this movie a lot of sweeping camera movements a lot of fade transitioning which was huge at the time um a lot of montages I think of the scene when uh he told his uh guardian the banker that he wanted to you know run the the uh publishing tycoon and kind of take it over and then he started uh kind of putting out all those really bad newspaper headlines that were against his guardian and every time he'd flash to him he's just like he did it again and it kept flashing and flashing. It was actually one of the first montages ever used in these movies. So pretty neat to see something like that that we take for granted now just they're in every kind of movie for comedic relief all the time. So interesting to see shots like that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

I was gonna ask like I I feel like that has to be one of the first yeah right there. But but definitely we definitely take montages for granted. But also like you know a good montage when you see one. Yeah Wolf of Wall Street I mean like I think that's a the big short as well those are two like specific movies where like a montage can either add or take away from a story. Yeah and it just depends on you know what how well you're doing it and how really how involved the viewer is before it or after. Yeah. But pretty cool cinematography nine out of ten for me I like that you touched on the lighting. The lighting I was a masterclass in especially for being black and white I mean there's so much depth to every shot and and there's the lighting directs your eyes exactly where you want it to be I like the I like to point to the scene where he's going into I think he's at some library or something. One of one of the guys working for the news for the news reporter and he's trying to find stuff about Kane's life and like you walk in and you have this huge lamp shot like a massive triangle down the scene you got this evil looking library lady. Yeah I don't know why they made the librarian like like evil she was like the evil librarian for Monsters Inc. But but dude I she was probably the scariest character in the whole movie to be honest man she was she was creeping out but the lighting and that scene specifically and then also just all throughout the entire movie was fantastic. Yeah. Use of reflections I thought was really cool and definitely new for the time like is I forget I don't know what the actual technique's called but just having you know an overlay of characters on a shot when the when they were looking at the not the TV I think but the chronicle news the chronicle picture of the other writers for the rival newspaper like you get to see that with the reflection of Kane and Bernstein in the window. I thought that was you know without a doubt revolutionary for the time and something that I've that we've seen copied. Yeah not copied but used and implemented into so many other movies since then.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

And then it faded into them taking a picture at the new chronicle as like that's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yes dude fade it that's like just we'll have to get into that right there with the uh with the directing and the editing man yeah like that that fade was fantastic. Yeah and it again it was just at the time you gotta imagine with the cameras and what they were working with like it's so impressive. Yeah it's so much almost more impressive than what's going on today.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

So so yeah cinematography nine out of ten easily yeah getting into the dialogue I gave it a seven this is the one thing I had a little bit of issue with in this movie there were so many times where conversations were overlapping with each other. Uh somebody would be stating something and before they got to the end of the sentence the other person would already start talking and it was kind of like a brain wrestle dude I was like trying to figure out what was going on and what conversations they were having which I know everybody's talking really fast which is fine but when they start overlapping that's when it threw me a little bit yeah otherwise I think the the actual dialogue itself was good but the overlapping killed me a little bit in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Dude yeah I can understand that it it was definitely fast. Yeah fast paced it kind of felt like just you know classic fun old school Hollywood style yeah too because um you know similar to Touch of Evil the there's comedic relief and it it felt a lot more like slapstick in in Citizen Kane and with some of the comedic relief that they've through with that they were throwing in but it was just so fast paced that sometimes it was just a lot to take in. I mean I definitely watched it with subtitles that helped I had to turn them on after a little bit because things were moving.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yeah yeah my favorite line was uh he said you know Mr. Thatcher if I hadn't been very rich I might have been a really great man. Yes. I think this is so interesting just because obviously how money can corrupt people and your your ideas you know ha being a really great man was in there but the the corruption of money and how that led him down the path that he realized he wouldn't get back from.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah yeah I I love that quote I actually don't have a specific quote from this one I was I was honestly kind of locked I was kind of locked in the entire time. Yeah um I just couldn't take my eyes off the screen I was I was so invested. But I gave the dialogue a I gave it an eight out of ten. Thought it was fast paced some good comedic relief yeah but just at the same time you know touching on the downfall of man yeah and the corruption from greed and money.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Yeah. Getting into set design I gave it an eight nothing too special. I thought all the sets were looked really good for the time obviously like we talked about they use lighting really well on these sets so definitely helped out a lot but nothing in particular stood out any crazy things but I thought it was pretty well done.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah yeah I gave it a I gave it a nine I mean I I didn't see any I thought Xanadu was was was well done. Yeah the perspective shots there I'm assuming that was just like a model shot from a distance but uh you know I always look for like inconsistencies and problems with the set and they like that's it's something I'm always kind of looking for is like for film for filmmakers to slip up and you're just not going to see that with any of Orson's movies. Yeah you just have no chance.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

And then with the acting I gave it an eight I thought it was really well done. Obviously Wells was 25 years old when he directed and starred in this film uh making this motion picture debut he obviously he crafted uh all the characters in this movie but uh he crafted a great character for himself really i idealistic bitter man I just think it was is so well done he's he stood out as the the the main character for me that I really like the acting with but I think everybody did fine in this as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah I I think that's the best way to put it everyone everyone did fine and Orson was you know superb. Yeah my I mean it shows why he's considered one of the greatest actors he just his ability to kind of elevate actors around him and like while still just doing such a good job of of of convincing you that he is a character is is top notch. And he portrayed you know Kane in such a kind of similar to what we were talking about with Touch of Evil where you're rooting for the guy. A lot more for Kane of course but he he portrays him in such a lovable light when when you look at him he's really just a silver spoon kind of crybaby all the time who just wants power. Just wants power and money. But you know that is that's just a that's that comes with the corruption of being in that world and being around all of those different types of people. Acting was great nine out of ten just because I mean most of the movie was was Orson he did such a good job.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Yeah I mean just following on him as well obviously he directed this movie I gave it eight I thought it was pretty amazing revolutionized filmmaking uh very good at inner inner uh sorry integrating lighting techniques and then um the overlapping dialogue again I I I know that's more on dialogue but with the overall directing I would have liked to see that cut out a little bit but besides that really impressive and obviously kind of stood the test of time we're still talking about it today.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

I mean yeah fast edits while portraying emotion it felt like it the the he just does such a good job of like mood really just port just giving you the emotion without having to speak it you know through the dialogue itself. I think that that one that there's a fun shot when we're getting introduced to his first wife I believe and it's like this shot coming down from the window looking through a glass and it cuts with like rainwater on the glass into the inside just impressive just impressive editing. The uh there was this one bird scream when he's like have you ever talked about the death of his wife and it like this like this crazy dramatic cut to like this parakeet screaming. You remember that yeah it fell to out of nowhere at first I was like what the hell then I was like all right maybe it's like representing the his internal agony and despair after like you know losing the last thing he had but it's just it was pretty it was pretty crazy. It was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Getting in the soundtrack I gave it an eight I thought it was a really good score. I thought the the opening scene obviously where they kind of run through uh the news telling of the death of Charles Kane I thought that was pretty well done and then obviously music worked in in between I think it perfectly uh conveyed plot points and nothing too much more than that. I think it was really well done.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Yeah totally agree just so good at you know being in tune with the story it doesn't take away from the story and I think I think that's what's kind of more most important. It doesn't take away it it adds it subconsciously like lets you know what emotion is going on what emotion you're supposed to be feeling if we're if we're nervous at the moment if we're we're all happy and excited. And then you good music.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Good yeah yeah I'd give it a I think I gave it an eight the theme I gave it a nine I think the themes were a a big highlight of this movie as well. Obviously the hollowness of the American dream you know we always see the American dream portrayed in a very bright and happy manner um but this is definitely the dark side of it and showing that in film is really interesting to see. Yeah the the impossibility of just truly knowing another person you know so many people throughout this film thought they knew Charles Kane and we see so many different perspectives on him. It's like you saw this this side of him you saw this side you saw this other side that was definitely interesting to see and especially us seeing all these different perspectives on how he is as a man. Obviously we talked about the corruption of wealth and power and then also the ruthless ambition that kind of made him fall into this deep personal void.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Yeah. Ruthless ambition idea that that that money fixes all I mean the the idea that money fixes all is a lie sold to us through the newspapers. You know it it is something that he was pushing and that he he thought was true the American dream to some extent but he started off well intended supposed to be the white knight and just this corruption of himself. I really like how you said so many people knew him but like didn't actually know it. And that that whole time I was kind of wondering because we're getting this convert this all this information about this guy from these other people like you know memories are kind of influenced on based on your opinion of the person sometimes when when talking about something like that. So I was I just thought that was that was something fun to think about there.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

But eight eight out of ten nine out of ten yeah give it a nine the uh editing obviously keep harping on it Orson Wells is just amazing at this gave it a 10. Uh kind of revolutionized the nonlinear story storytelling too from what I read that wasn't a very common thing either um all the jumping we did in this film I think it was perfectly done. Me and Tyler have talked about before on the show just kind of how you screw nonlinear storytelling up it it can end very badly you have to really sit down and make sure that it works for an audience. So having the the fragmented narrative structure I think was perfect for him and I think it was perfectly done in this movie. I wouldn't have changed much yeah the flashbacks were pretty uh crazy the seamless seamless manipulation of time through it as well I never felt like I was lost or confused about what was going on just perfectly done again by Orson Wells.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

Yeah totally agree the camera keeps you and the way that it was edited as well it it it keeps you so engaged with the story and it it it's a hard story to to convey because we're taught we're showing this man's life through the lens of talking to different people and you know we're quickly jumping back and forth a lot of times between you know reality the past and like a past within a past like someone else's thought within that they did such a good job. He did such a good job I mean it was it was him and Greg someone else I forget the who the the main guy who's helped him out on this movie was and I think it's kind of debated as to like who gets the most credit when it comes to the editing and the cinematography. But either way it's it's I I just how I have it in here so much. This is the textbook. You know this is like I told my mom that we were watching this movie. She's like oh I took a class and that was the first movie we watched yeah I was like yeah I I know and I think it should be I it like there's you this it is a textbook and you just see so many techniques that you know they formed and and really implemented so well used in Hollywood nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

10 out of 10 as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Yeah no doubt. Overall I gave this movie an 8.4 out of 10 or an 84 like you said just textbook. I mean this is how you do it and to be done at such an early time in Hollywood I think it's just amazing everybody you know references this movie. I imagine you could watch pretty much any movie coming out now and pull something and be like oh this Orson Wells had a a a doing in this you know he he kind of innovated this to where it is today.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

I yeah overall I've got it at 8.1 yeah I think that should be a little higher like if I was going to give it a score out of 10 on my mind I'd probably throw it closer to like nine nine one because I think that's undoubtedly where this deserves to be but it's iconic and like you said you're seeing this everywhere one of my like favorite scenes I was thinking about is when he's like just sitting in the seat clapping clapping all hard and I'm thinking about Shia LaBeouf sitting in his seat like clapping at his own movies. Yeah that little show he did so I just think I think it's I think it's fantastic. There's so much rewatch value there's so much you can learn about filmmaking and editing and you know how how to introduce characters and and just just how to make a movie from this.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

So yeah overall I'm gonna give it a personal 9.1 yeah really great really great yeah man so kind of getting into you know what Orson Wells was great at we have a pretty fun draft today we're gonna do a cinematography draft. This is one of the more fun categories that I've been coming up with so how it'll work is we'll basically do a snake style draft. So we'll spin a wheel to see who goes first and the categories will be Oscar win for best cinematography. The next category is noir the next category being black and white after that tracking shot takes so it doesn't necessarily have to be the whole movie but just a movie that has a really cool tracking shot take that you like and then also stunning landscapes so again doesn't have to be necessarily like an earth landscape it can just be a landscape shot showing like kind of a broad picture of what's going on in the scene and then wild card at the end. So let me spin the wheel figure out who's going first. Some really great movies gonna come up today I'm sure all right I'm going first and Drew will be second. So I'll go Drew get two picks then I'll get two picks sweet sweet so for my first pick I'm gonna go with the tracking shot take category and take one of my favorites that you mentioned earlier. I'm gonna take 1917 this whole movie is tracking shots and I think it's so perfectly done.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Yeah wow dude what a great movie it is it's it's like one long term fucking tracking shot. You just can't stop it's great. So you said you get two? No you get two now okay I get two now sweet give me uh I'm gonna take landscape shots personal favorite secret life of Walter Middy okay just love I was struggling between that and Into the Wild. Those are both two of my favorite just great landscape shot movies but I think the Secret Life of Walter Mitty does a great job of incorporating landscapes with the story. Yeah so really fun and then black I'll take black and white give me uh me 12 angry men just another another old school classic you know we've got complex characters with a simple a simple plot and we let the actors do all the work yeah draws you into the story.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Yeah all right I'm gonna have to get this one off the board because I know Drew will take it I'm gonna take for Oscar win for best cinematography I'm gonna go ahead and take Lala Land yeah wouldn't be a Justin movie draft without a lala land and then what a what a good movie. Yeah so so well done let me see here I think I'm gonna go ahead I'll leave that because there's a lot there I like I'm gonna take my noir movie and I'm gonna take Blade Runner 2049.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Ooh that's a good one yeah you know I actually just watched that recently for for the first time wow yeah I know right all that in theaters holy shit yeah the cinematography in that movie is just so amazing it's crazy to me awesome awesome awesome so is it i my turn yep you got two you got two picks two picks two picks two picks two picks all right I'm gonna take I'm gonna take my wild card throw in just another personal favorite we're gonna go Lord of the Rings Return of the King okay one of the greatest movies at of all time the the scale of what they accomplished at the timeline that they did it with these three movies the is fantastic I think the acting and the writing it is underrated has a lot more to be spoken for but just just top notch so I'm taking that one and then you know I guess I guess I gotta take my Oscar winner. Damn you took 1917 dude you're a bastard I gotta I I gotta pivot here real quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

I want to say I have three Oscar winners for best cinematography on my team right now all three of these grabbed La La Land in 1917.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

You're bastard and Blade Runner 2014 and Blade Runner I know there's some good ones out there sniffed no no there are there are I'm just I'm just working through it you know what I don't know if you've seen it I'm I'm a big fan of like I know I didn't say this earlier I kind of fumbled on my my intro talking about movies I liked. Dude but like love love anything like medieval no like old school fighting like battles swords and stuff like that someone threw a braveheart on there. Okay. Just fantastic story mixed in with some of the the best large scale action scenes you'll see.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

And that you're taking that for Oscar? Okay. Yeah that's a good one. All right so let's see I have a couple here. I think for black and white there's two good ones I'm gonna go ahead and take Schindler's list. We watched this with uh the Steven Spielberg episode we did and I've never fully sat down and watched it until then but just wow some of the shots I mean very long movie one of the few I'm okay with being so long, but just such amazing shots and so well told and you know the story, but also using the camera work to tell the story was pretty amazing too.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Okay. I need to watch that one. It's been on it's it's high on the list. It's kind of crazy. I haven't seen it yet, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

And then my next one, I'll go ahead and take I'll go ahead and take Stunning Landscape movie that one of my favorite movies of all time. Just some amazing shots of space. I'm gonna go ahead and take 2001 as Space Odyssey. Oh nice. Nice. Just for yeah considering that um we talked about uh Touch of Evil and this movie came out ten years later is just amazing to me that it came out that long ago. Yeah. And was still this this well done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

It's pretty insane the the timing of that movie. Yeah. Just how impressive it is. 100% agree. So you'll have your final two picks here. Yeah. Oh that's right I still have tracking. Fantastic. I thought I already did that. I was excited about that one. Honorable mention tracking True Detective episode five when he's I don't know if you've seen true detective season one yet when he's tracking you got this has been a whole bitch dude Tyler's on to watch this need to watch dude Justin it's it's a movie it's an eight hour movie. It's fantastic but you get to break it up into hour segments. Yeah each episode is is fantastic but there's a tracking shot in there that will blow your fucking mind. Okay. So but I'll for my movie my tracking movie shout out Hayden Tobin we're gonna take children of men great dystopian um future kind of sci-fi film set up where you know the human race is failing there's only one only one fix for this guy and uh there's this awesome tracking shot in the car that's probably like four minutes long yeah where there's so much going on and then for my noir movie dude Touch of evil I mean I'm that was so good. That is I know I've said textbook a million times today that feels that feels like it just because it was I mean that's that's my textbook. So yeah Touch of evil for noir movie. I don't think it gets much better than that and if so I'd love to start watching some some more noir.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Yeah I have one more pick here for my wild card and a lot of different directions I could go but I had another noir one that I was going to take if Blade Runner was gone. So I'm gonna take the Batman Robert Pattinson's The Batman oh yeah yeah I think the cinematography in this movie was very underrated. I think it was so well done I think Gotham was perfectly done. It just felt like a comic book and to be able to pull that off in the in the real world was uh pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Yeah. One of I think he's gonna kind of stand the test of time. Yeah. That's one of my favorite like Batman adaptions. Robert Patterson just killed it. Absolutely killed it and and also just the world building around him it it perfectly fit like the detective you know element of Batman which I really enjoyed. Yeah. Definitely a great movie man good pick good pick.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

So I'm gonna read through a couple honorable mentions before we read through our teams uh there were some big movies that we didn't even talk about just because there's some really great cinem cinematography movies out there. One is There Will Be Blood I don't know if you've seen that Apocalypse Now is another big one that people talk about all the time. For Noir, Watchmen have you seen Watchmen before you know I actually haven't I feel like I've seen all of it on on YouTube shorts though. Yeah that is a noir film 100% Taxi Driver with Robert De Niro that one's pretty interesting. And Memento to Christopher Nolan great movie. Black and white uh the lighthouse I don't know if you've seen that that's a good one Robert Pattinson there. Tracking shots Goodfellows is another big one has a lot of tracking shots in it. Stunning landscapes I think we got all those and then I was gonna I had another one uh Fantastic Mr. Fox I think the cinematography in that one is amazing too do you have any other ones that we didn't talk about you know yeah um something just something that's been on my mind is O Brother Rart though.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Yeah I don't know if you've seen that I love that movie the the life aquatic a lot of Wes Anderson stuff I didn't touch on that earlier but you you mentioned Fantastic Mr. Fox and um a girlfriend and I have been watching a good bit of Wes Anderson. Yeah so just a huge fan there so the Grand Budapest Hotel the Secret the Life Aquatic Fantastic Mr. Fox there's a cool like Netflix miniseries on there as well but yeah man there's so many good movies out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Yeah Cody Brothers is a big one too there's huge in cinematography work so yeah Oh brother where art thou no country for old men all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

Yep no country for old men yeah man you can keep this show going forever never gonna run out dude so uh yeah if you want to go ahead and just read through your team or I can start so for mine I did Oscar win for best cinematography I did La La Land No War I did Blade Runner 2049 Black and White I did Sendler's List Tracking Shots I did 1917 uh Stunning Landscapes I did 2001 a Space Odyssey and then by wild card I took the Batman nice nice I forgot what I just put chose for my Oscar you chose Braveheart thank you thank you very much yeah my Oscar cinematography we're taking Braveheart noir movie gonna rock touch of evil black and white 12 angry men uh tracking children of men with an honorable mention to true detective landscape stunning landscapes secret life of Walter Mitty and then for our wild card Lord of the Rings Return of the King yep there you go yeah man what a blast Madison will post a graphic up on Instagram and TikTok so people will vote and we'll see who had the better draft.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Yeah we're gonna see I think you may have got me awesome man well I appreciate having you on uh we'll definitely have you on again you really killed it you brought up so many things I never even thought of before so we'll definitely have you back for sure. Dude I would love to I can't wait man this was a blast thanks for having me of course of course and we'll see you guys next week